HP Reverb G2

DPI

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
12,494
Isn't the picture on screen just a mirrored image from the headset? The rendering power it takes should be almost zero. 🤔
It's not a large difference, 1-3% delta. I'm talking ideal, not recommended or required for most people. But fact is, if GPU is splitting its attention to render desktop while also driving VR HMD, there's a small perf hit. Just like mining crypto on a GPU will be impacted by desktop activity, versus if nothing is plugged into GPU and a different GPU or IGP renders the desktop instead.

I know because I've done a lot of A/B comparison and looked closely at FPS and frametimes. Even with a 3090 I'm OCD about having only the G2 plugged into it when using VR.
 
Last edited:

bobzdar

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
1,957
Yes the WMR shim is still in the background while in SteamVR, still doing redundant screen mirroring. Can't be avoided or bypassed in Windows 10.

The issue is optimization. Unlike a first person shooter on a 2D monitor, where losing a few frames and GPU cycles to an OSD/FPS counter doesn't really matter, in VR every GPU cycle counts. A VR HMD like the G2 that already demands more GPU horsepower than any current GPU can provide (and will take an RTX 5090 to finally drive it 1:1 natively), when the GPU has to do also render unnecessary shit on the desktop, there's a performance impact to VR frametimes and FPS.

The most ideal setup from a VR performance standpoint is the HMD plugged into the GPU by itself, and a separate GPU (or IGP) serving the desktop.

You can disable screen mirroring in WMR extremely easily, so that's not a real issue imo. In terms of resource utilization, the WMR portal, at least on my (albeit fairly monster) PC uses sub 1% of cpu/gpu when in a game. I haven't moved to Win11 yet as I was waiting for the AMD related performance issues to be sorted, but at this point it seems like they are for the most part and the ability to completely disable the WMR portal would be welcome as I never use it.

Either way, I have not really had any issues with WMR portal other than when voice commands were accidentally enabled and something I said triggered a menu to pop up in the middle of a 6hr race causing me to crash...Easily fixed, just inconvenient when it happened. My bigger issue is when Nvidia releases a driver (or steam releases an update for steamVR) and compatibility between the GPU and SteamVR gets broken. It doesn't happen often but when it does it's a half an hour of playing driver rodeo to fix it. Sometimes I have to upgrade to the latest Nvidia driver to fix it, sometimes I have to roll back to an older one. PITA when it happens ~ every 6 months, but nothing to do with WMR that I can tell.
 

reaper12

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
2,697
It's not a large difference, 1-3% delta. I'm talking ideal, not recommended or required for most people. But fact is, if GPU is splitting its attention to render desktop while also driving VR HMD, there's a small perf hit. Just like mining crypto on a GPU will be impacted by desktop activity, versus if nothing is plugged into GPU and a different GPU or IGP renders the desktop instead.

I know because I've done a lot of A/B comparison and looked closely at FPS and frametimes. Even with a 3090 I'm OCD about having only the G2 plugged into it when using VR.

That small delta makes no difference in VR.
 

DPI

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
12,494
That small delta makes no difference in VR.
To you. No offense. It's not zero. I like running SS% as close to the edge as possible at the lowest frametimes possible. A/B comparing frametime graphs with and without the GPU rendering a desktop and the frametimes are also smoother with way less spikes than otherwise.
 
Last edited:

DPI

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 20, 2013
Messages
12,494
You can disable screen mirroring in WMR extremely easily, so that's not a real issue imo. In terms of resource utilization, the WMR portal, at least on my (albeit fairly monster) PC uses sub 1% of cpu/gpu when in a game. I haven't moved to Win11 yet as I was waiting for the AMD related performance issues to be sorted, but at this point it seems like they are for the most part and the ability to completely disable the WMR portal would be welcome as I never use it.

Either way, I have not really had any issues with WMR portal other than when voice commands were accidentally enabled and something I said triggered a menu to pop up in the middle of a 6hr race causing me to crash...Easily fixed, just inconvenient when it happened. My bigger issue is when Nvidia releases a driver (or steam releases an update for steamVR) and compatibility between the GPU and SteamVR gets broken. It doesn't happen often but when it does it's a half an hour of playing driver rodeo to fix it. Sometimes I have to upgrade to the latest Nvidia driver to fix it, sometimes I have to roll back to an older one. PITA when it happens ~ every 6 months, but nothing to do with WMR that I can tell.
You're right with disabling mirroring which is recommended, but my annoyance is more with the question "why is it even there" if MS isn't interested in actually building it out and contributing firstpatrty content to the VR space. Cliffhouse = abandonware.

The WMR portal feels like part of a long running theme with Microsoft, where they bandwagon jump a consumer trend they initially wrote off (they bet big and lost on AR>VR), but then quickly lose interest and abandon. At least they still have a core WMR team that works on driver updates and bugfixes, working with HP etc.

WMR has always felt like a mish-mash stack of shims and random pieces - and hardware partners coming/going/losing interest- while Oculus is ferociously vertically integrated - software, hardware, content development all working as one.
 
Last edited:

reaper12

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
2,697
To you. No offense. It's not zero. I like running SS% as close to the edge as possible at the lowest frametimes possible. A/B comparing frametime graphs with and without the GPU rendering a desktop and the frametimes are also smoother with way less spikes than otherwise.

Ehh, no, you still won't notice that small a delta in VR. unless you are just sitting looking at a graph.

If you are actually noticing the difference, then it's one of two things. You are playing a game like Subnautica that renders on both the desktop and the headset, or you have a problem with your setup.
 

bobzdar

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
1,957
You're right with disabling mirroring which is recommended, but my annoyance is more with the question "why is it even there" if MS isn't interested in actually building it out and contributing firstpatrty content to the VR space. Cliffhouse = abandonware.

The WMR portal feels like part of a long running theme with Microsoft, where they bandwagon jump a consumer trend they initially wrote off (they bet big and lost on AR>VR), but then quickly lose interest and abandon. At least they still have a core WMR team that works on driver updates and bugfixes, working with HP etc.

WMR has always felt like a mish-mash stack of shims and random pieces - and hardware partners coming/going/losing interest- while Oculus is ferociously vertically integrated - software, hardware, content development all working as one.

Yeah, they royally F'd up. They should have at minimum had support on the Xbox this gen to go with the G2 headset, it'd blow psvr out of the water and a full year ahead of their next gen setup. It would also likely have gotten another round of headsets from at least Samsung. Then they could have cross sold xbox/pc vr games via their store/cliffhouse. It's like they made the plan, the OEM's built headsets with a survival of the fittest happening between Samsung and HP, then they never followed through with the extremely logical small step of enabling it on Xbox, which was the proper VR catalyst that would have had them, PS and Oculus all competing for market share. Instead they didn't follow through, PS doesn't have to compete with them and Oculus is in a class of their own sales wise.
 

Ripskin

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Messages
2,503
I only had time to play one game over the weekend and noticed that after the update the "hands" don't get lost as much and overall seem more accurate. Believe it can be improved further but good to see / feel.
 

bobzdar

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
1,957
At $450 It's a tougher call vs. the Quest 2. No brainer for PCVR sims as a starting point, but for other stuff I'd still prefer the wireless of Quest 2. Big MSFS update tomorrow that will allow VR controllers, I think this is THE headset to have for that (if you don't have Varjo budget). Dumb of MS not to support this on XBOX, they'd immediately get massive adoption with an xbox msfs bundle with console, headset and controller at $800-$1000 all in.
 

workshop35

Gawd
Joined
Nov 24, 2013
Messages
766
Definitely worth it at 450, even against a quest 2. Its basically the same price as a quest 2 with the vive deluxe audio strap at that point. The wireless is good (I have both) but the screen of the G2 is much better.
 

MrC4

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Messages
1,644
For those who can't wait 2 days for Microsoft's sale, it is listed for $449 with free shipping from HP.com right now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: noko
like this

noko

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 14, 2010
Messages
6,936
For those who can't wait 2 days for Microsoft's sale, it is listed for $449 with free shipping from HP.com right now.
I see $499, says instant $50 but does not appear in basket upon checkout. Am I missing something, initially it indicated $449 until added to the basket then it goes up to $499.

Now for sneak peek Black Friday it says $499 -> looks like the deal went away, I missed it by seconds so it seems.
 

MrC4

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Messages
1,644
I'm betting you can find it for $449 on Black Friday.

Good luck!
 

Eivind68

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Messages
138
Is there any way to improve the black level on the G2? Or any mods to improve the sound level, as I feel the speakers are too low to feel immersive in certain situations.
 

MaZa

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 21, 2008
Messages
3,471
Is there any way to improve the black level on the G2? Or any mods to improve the sound level, as I feel the speakers are too low to feel immersive in certain situations.

The screen is LCD in complete darkness and no local dimming, so no. No idea about volume.
 
Last edited:

jobert

Gawd
Joined
Dec 13, 2020
Messages
906
I thought about getting this but there are literally just as many people that gave it a one-star review as there was giving it a five-star review on the HP site. The last thing I want is even more headaches to deal with and I think they charge a restocking fee if you return it. I think I'm just going to stick with the Quest 2 for now and then get that new Oculus headset that comes out next year.
 

reaper12

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
2,697
I thought about getting this but there are literally just as many people that gave it a one-star review as there was giving it a five-star review on the HP site. The last thing I want is even more headaches to deal with and I think they charge a restocking fee if you return it. I think I'm just going to stick with the Quest 2 for now and then get that new Oculus headset that comes out next year.
Most of the one star reviews are probably because of the cable issue that affected AMD owners. HP have solved that problem with a new cable, so I wouldn't worry about it. However, the difference between a Reverb G2 and Quest 2 isn't worth switching from the Quest 2 for. And you will also lose the wireless freedom of the Quest 2.
 

jobert

Gawd
Joined
Dec 13, 2020
Messages
906
Most of the one star reviews are probably because of the cable issue that affected AMD owners. HP have solved that problem with a new cable, so I wouldn't worry about it. However, the difference between a Reverb G2 and Quest 2 isn't worth switching from the Quest 2 for. And you will also lose the wireless freedom of the Quest 2.
Yeah it would be hard to go back to having a cable after using airlink.
 

Kerby1280

n00b
Joined
Aug 18, 2006
Messages
51
I was able to compare my G2 to my cousin's Quest 2 over the weekend. We both notice the G2's slightly better resolution. They both have similar sweet spots. The Quest 2 is wireless and has gesture control. The Quest 2 is a very good VR headset especially at the 128gb's price point. I just don't like the Facebook account requirements.
 

sethk

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 3, 2005
Messages
2,043
I thought I read they were doing away with the FB account requirement.
 

funkydmunky

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
3,208
What do you peeps have your SteamVR resolution set too? I
I currently have it to 70%. Do you use global or per app? I read that 46% is the exact rez of the head-set. Curious to know what some of your WMR display settings and SteamVR settings are.
It was 200% with my O+ and it crashed and froze my display many time before I figured it out :ROFLMAO:
 

Ripskin

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Messages
2,503
I keep forgetting to check honestly lol. I left most of the steam settings at default :eek:
 

ng4ever

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Messages
3,047
I keep forgetting to check honestly lol. I left most of the steam settings at default :eek:

Yeah that is what most people do.

First thing I do when installing steam again, if ever, is change the settings. Though everyone is different.
 

funkydmunky

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
3,208
Yeah that is what most people do.

First thing I do when installing steam again, if ever, is change the settings. Though everyone is different.
The per app tweaking is quite brilliant. The G2 will bring even the hottest system to its knees, and the ability to bring it down for proper fps is quite amazing to enjoy VR. Full G2 is somewhere around 45% yet Steam had me at 100% and life sucked. It can work for some weak games but everyone should know and tweak these values as needed. There has yet to be a GPU invented that can rock the G2 without taking into consideration of settings.
 

workshop35

Gawd
Joined
Nov 24, 2013
Messages
766
The per app tweaking is quite brilliant. The G2 will bring even the hottest system to its knees, and the ability to bring it down for proper fps is quite amazing to enjoy VR. Full G2 is somewhere around 45% yet Steam had me at 100% and life sucked. It can work for some weak games but everyone should know and tweak these values as needed. There has yet to be a GPU invented that can rock the G2 without taking into consideration of settings.
I'm replacing a 1080ti with a 3090 in a few hours, its going to be fun seeing how much higher the settings bar can go :)
 

MrGoat

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
1,556
I'm going to ask a couple of what I'm sure are noob questions about configuration.

I snagged a G2 a couple of months back and it's hilarious fun, however I have issues with scale. When playing Half Life Alyx it feels like I'm 9ft tall. Also when playing MSFS ..again everything feels scaled down like 15%. Anyone know how to address this?
 

workshop35

Gawd
Joined
Nov 24, 2013
Messages
766
I'm going to ask a couple of what I'm sure are noob questions about configuration.

I snagged a G2 a couple of months back and it's hilarious fun, however I have issues with scale. When playing Half Life Alyx it feels like I'm 9ft tall. Also when playing MSFS ..again everything feels scaled down like 15%. Anyone know how to address this?
Can you redo the initial calibration?
 

Ripskin

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 15, 2004
Messages
2,503
In Steam VR when I first load up mine will sometimes be off a bit. I usually look at the floor, crouch, and put one of the controllers down on the ring, if I see it vanish more than the ring into the floor of the VR house I go into the option in VR and reset the height.

In MSFS if I recall there was an FOV or scaling thing you could select to tweak it a bit.
 

funkydmunky

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
3,208
Sure, I'll give that a whirl tonight
And make sure you have decent even illuminated light. It really helps for calibration I have found. I often turn lights down afterward with no issues but seems to need it for calibration.
 

davidlem

Gawd
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
666
I play mainly seated sims without controllers. In the last couple months, after almost a year of flawless service, I started noticing what I can only describe as ghost motion. In other words, I'm holding relatively still and the POV wanders a little this way or that way for a second or two, like it's hunting for tracking in one axis. At first I attributed it to low-light conditions (15x15 room, single window with blinds closed, single bulb lamp on). I then tested with the blinds fully open in the afternoon and the tallest and brightest floor lamp I own just a few feet away but suffered the same wandering at random. I'm also always seated in front of a 40" monitor so I believe there's never been too little light to function correctly. My setup: Windows 10 21H1, Steam VR & WMR betas
 

ng4ever

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Messages
3,047
Just got a HP Reverb G2 v2 - Mixed Reality Portal anyway to minimize it to system tray instead ?
 
Top