Will never buy an Intel CPU again.

Dan_D

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He must not be very old if he thinks this is the worst launch in history. I've seen paper launches of CPU's and GPU's where they were no where to be found for weeks and even months. We didn't have the same scalping issues or supply chain problems we do today either. I've seen GPU's sell out world-wide in 5 minutes or less. I've seen CPU's that you couldn't get on launch day at all.

This is hardly the worst launch ever. It doesn't even rank in the top ten worst launches ever.
 

JMCB

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I'm kind of in the same boat. I have a 12900K and a Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Master just sitting here, and I'm tempted to just set aside the board and use my current memory with a DDR4 board. I'd even consider buying it at scalper prices, but the prices are just way too high. 2x to 3x, yeah I MIGHT consider it but at 5x-6x higher? F' that!!!!!
 

GoldenTiger

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I'm kind of in the same boat. I have a 12900K and a Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Master just sitting here, and I'm tempted to just set aside the board and use my current memory with a DDR4 board. I'd even consider buying it at scalper prices, but the prices are just way too high. 2x to 3x, yeah I MIGHT consider it but at 5x-6x higher? F' that!!!!!
Yeah, especially when there's a cheap alternative available (ddr4) :).
 

Epyon

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This topic has to be a troll this guy buys hardware during a chip shortage and a new platform and expects things to be in stock this guy Has to be a troll nobody can be this fucking stupid no one.
 

MrGuvernment

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This topic has to be a troll this guy buys hardware during a chip shortage and a new platform and expects things to be in stock this guy Has to be a troll nobody can be this fucking stupid no one.
And then blames Intel cause they cant find DDR5 ram...right...
 

Darunion

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Microcontrollers are showing over a 1 year lead time now, not getting better anytime soon. Only thing you can do now considering the supply chain mess that it is, is wait for some kind of Crystallized Tears Memory storage, you should be good at least with the raw material for a while.
 

AzixTGO

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I thought about this recently. They had time to make sure the launch was better. Intel has fabs they could have used to make whatever is causing a supply shortage. If they cared, they could possibly have done something.

ultimately they had months to prepare and get their crap together. The chip shortage isn't universally horrible. The tiny chip that people are saying is in short supply could have been planned for. In fact the current situation seems even worse as at least you could see other things popping up in stock and out of stock. I haven't seen ddr5 for a bit.

There is a claim online that supply should increase in december.

547854_2021-11-18-image-11-j_11001.jpg


https://www.techspot.com/news/92281-global-chip-shortage-now-impacting-ddr5-manufacturing.html

According to a report from electronic component supplier 12chip, the scarcity of DDR5 memory modules isn’t rooted in a shortage of DDR5 chips. That’s partly because DDR5 chips are manufactured using an older 14nm process node, and DRAM suppliers haven’t reported any issues in keeping up with demand.

The problem is that unlike DDR4, DDR5 modules integrate a power management integrated circuit (PMIC) that used to be part of the motherboard. The PMIC needed for DDR5 is not only much more expensive than that used for DDR4, but it's also in short supply, with procurement time now estimated at 35 weeks.
Actually seems kind of dumb but I suspect they just didn't care to put out DDR5 in that high a volume to begin with since it rests on intel processor sales.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ddr5-modules-already-in-short-supply

The main reason DDR5 memory sticks aren't available boils down to an insufficient supply of power management ICs (PMICs) that are now installed on memory modules, according to 12chip.com. Notably, DDR5 modules are the first generation of DDR memory that brings the PMICs on-module.

There aren't a lot of PMIC suppliers. The only PMICs validated by Intel are those from Renesas. In addition, Samsung has PMICs for its own modules. Other vendors that offer DDR5 PMICs include IDT, Montage Technologies, and Texas Instruments. Meanwhile, all of these companies (except, perhaps, Samsung and Renesas) have yet to ramp up the mass production of DDR5 PMICs, so lead times have extended, culminating in a shortage.

Because of the short supply, these PMICs are expensive. 12chip.com claims that they can be as much as 10 times more expensive than PMICs used for DDR4 memory subsystems. Furthermore, the procurement cycle is over 35 weeks long, suggesting we won't see a quick resolution to the issue.

I don't think its unreasonable to claim a failure from intel in some capacity and other involved companies. And as is usual, this is lost revenue. If even one company had its crap together it would be the one selling all the DDR5 modules while nobody else has stock.
 

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Dan_D

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I thought about this recently. They had time to make sure the launch was better. Intel has fabs they could have used to make whatever is causing a supply shortage. If they cared, they could possibly have done something.

ultimately they had months to prepare and get their crap together. The chip shortage isn't universally horrible. The tiny chip that people are saying is in short supply could have been planned for. In fact the current situation seems even worse as at least you could see other things popping up in stock and out of stock. I haven't seen ddr5 for a bit.

There is a claim online that supply should increase in december.
1638573568814.png


Intel doesn't make DDR5 RAM or any of the components that are used in it. You can't just make something like that without having the specific tooling necessary to produce the part in question. Even if you did, you would have to have a licensing agreement from whomever owns the patent on the device to make copies of it. Agreements like that can take a long time to hammer out by themselves. If you want to make your own part that does the same thing as whatever you are in short supply of, you have to design it, test it and then buy or make the necessary tooling to build it and then build the required quantity of those parts. This assumes that whatever raw materials or stock parts needed to make that product aren't in short supply as well.

There are industries where what you are talking about might be possible, but it's not something you can do in the semi-conductor industry. Intel would have to buy the necessary tooling, create the necessary license agreements, or spend the R&D money to design the chip themselves and take all the time to test and validate it. This is even assuming Intel had an existing space to do it in. If not, a new fab would need to be built. Fabs that cost billions of dollars and facilities like that can take a couple of years to become fully operational and staffed with workers trained on what they need to do. The shortage is likely to be over before Intel could even make serious progress towards producing whatever there is a shortage of.

Are you getting it yet? What you are talking about isn't realistic. It doesn't work that way in the semi-conductor industry. We aren't talking about CNC machining auto or gun parts here. Anything using a PCB is comprised of components from a dozen different companies each with their own supply chains and problems. I've only touched on the basics, the reality is even more complex.

Again, it's not Intel's responsibility to produce the modules. Your comment implies that a company like Intel should be able to just crank out a product if there is a shortage. It's because you don't understand the reasons behind the shortages or understand how manufacturing works. If case manufacturers start having problems is it Intel's job to step in and pick up the slack? By your logic it seems you think so.

There are more variables you aren't considering. What if Intel delayed the launch? Delays cost money, hurt stock prices and a whole bunch of other things. Additionally, most of these CPU's are going to be paired with DDR4 memory anyway. It makes no sense to delay the CPU launch over memory supply issues that will only effect a small percentage of customers. It especially didn't make sense to do so and miss out on the holiday shopping season.
 

Nenu

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A clue is needed when purchasing ahead of the curve. If you dont have, wait until its safe for you.
You cant blame companies for problems beyond their scope.
By all means be annoyed, but lay blame where it actually lies, cutting out one of the major hardware players for no good reason wont help you at all.
I'm saddened someone who's been here for 11 years can't get the fundamentals right and created a thread to exclaim it!
 

Dan_D

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A clue is needed when purchasing ahead of the curve. If you dont have, wait until its safe for you.
You cant blame companies for problems beyond their scope.
By all means be annoyed, but lay blame where it actually lies, cutting out one of the major hardware players for no good reason wont help you at all.
I'm saddened someone who's been here for 11 years can't get the fundamentals right and created a new thread to exclaim it!
I'm rather annoyed that I can't get DDR5 RAM right now either. I've got a bunch of expensive hardware sitting in boxes because of it. But, that's not Intel's fault.
 

thedream829

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I'm rather annoyed that I can't get DDR5 RAM right now either. I've got a bunch of expensive hardware sitting in boxes because of it. But, that's not Intel's fault.

I gave in and paid double for some off a scalper. Sighs.
 

Nenu

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I'm rather annoyed that I can't get DDR5 RAM right now either. I've got a bunch of expensive hardware sitting in boxes because of it. But, that's not Intel's fault.
I dont blame you, scalpers are b******s.
I hope you get that law that will hopefully stop bots making purchases.
My post was about the op though.
 
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AzixTGO

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View attachment 418254

Intel doesn't make DDR5 RAM or any of the components that are used in it. You can't just make something like that without having the specific tooling necessary to produce the part in question. Even if you did, you would have to have a licensing agreement from whomever owns the patent on the device to make copies of it. Agreements like that can take a long time to hammer out by themselves. If you want to make your own part that does the same thing as whatever you are in short supply of, you have to design it, test it and then buy or make the necessary tooling to build it and then build the required quantity of those parts. This assumes that whatever raw materials or stock parts needed to make that product aren't in short supply as well.

There are industries where what you are talking about might be possible, but it's not something you can do in the semi-conductor industry. Intel would have to buy the necessary tooling, create the necessary license agreements, or spend the R&D money to design the chip themselves and take all the time to test and validate it. This is even assuming Intel had an existing space to do it in. If not, a new fab would need to be built. Fabs that cost billions of dollars and facilities like that can take a couple of years to become fully operational and staffed with workers trained on what they need to do. The shortage is likely to be over before Intel could even make serious progress towards producing whatever there is a shortage of.

Are you getting it yet? What you are talking about isn't realistic. It doesn't work that way in the semi-conductor industry. We aren't talking about CNC machining auto or gun parts here. Anything using a PCB is comprised of components from a dozen different companies each with their own supply chains and problems. I've only touched on the basics, the reality is even more complex.

Again, it's not Intel's responsibility to produce the modules. Your comment implies that a company like Intel should be able to just crank out a product if there is a shortage. It's because you don't understand the reasons behind the shortages or understand how manufacturing works. If case manufacturers start having problems is it Intel's job to step in and pick up the slack? By your logic it seems you think so.

There are more variables you aren't considering. What if Intel delayed the launch? Delays cost money, hurt stock prices and a whole bunch of other things. Additionally, most of these CPU's are going to be paired with DDR4 memory anyway. It makes no sense to delay the CPU launch over memory supply issues that will only effect a small percentage of customers. It especially didn't make sense to do so and miss out on the holiday shopping season.

You're saying a lot of things but most of it doesn't matter. intel claims to be/want to be a chip manufacturer for third parties. Unless they are going to swear off ever making PMICs for some reason. The main points of concern are if intel could actually make those chips if they saw a problem coming and assigned limited capacity to address it and if the companies that designed them would be willing to port to a new process. Its not impossible for Intel to approach relevant companies and attempt to improve the supply chain. This is already what they are doing in areas they care about. Its not unreasonable at all to expect intel to have at minimum had discussions with the relevant companies. Their approach can't be "w/e happens bro"

At the end of the day it comes down to planning and what each party wants.
 

DooKey

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You're saying a lot of things but most of it doesn't matter. intel claims to be/want to be a chip manufacturer for third parties. Unless they are going to swear off ever making PMICs for some reason. The main points of concern are if intel could actually make those chips if they saw a problem coming and assigned limited capacity to address it and if the companies that designed them would be willing to port to a new process. Its not impossible for Intel to approach relevant companies and attempt to improve the supply chain. This is already what they are doing in areas they care about. Its not unreasonable at all to expect intel to have at minimum had discussions with the relevant companies. Their approach can't be "w/e happens bro"

At the end of the day it comes down to planning and what each party wants.
Still not how this works.
 

hititnquitit

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And elsewhere in Fantasyland News at 10... Intel builds and releases 100s of millions of cutting edge gpus instantly with just a wave of their wand! Abracadabra! -POOF- Taadaaaaa!
 

mwarps

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I have 4K euros of components getting the dust because there is no DDR5 in the entire europe.

*snip*

Intel will never see my money again.
This is the last time I buy an Intel CPU, no matter how good they will be in the future.
This is not an Intel problem. This is a you problem. You started a build without proper planning, purchased components without checking to see if you could get everything to make a working system.

Do you want a pony, too? Sorry, we're out.
 

wandplus

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Just to make my point this might be trolling...

case: Cooler Master MasterBox Q300L $45 CAD @ Amazon.ca
power supply: Seasonic FOCUS GM-550 $73 CAD @ Newegg.ca
motherboard: ASRock B560M PRO4 $130 CAD @ Newegg.ca (Kindinformatique)
memory: Crucial Ballistix 3200 MHz DDR4 16GB BL2K8G32C16U4W $105 CAD @ Amazon.ca
CPU: Intel i5-11400 $255.25 CAD @ ShopRBC (shipping likely $13 CAD)
solid state drive: Western Digital WD BLACK SN750 M.2 2280 250GB WDS250TGB0E $53 CAD @ Amazon.ca
hard drive: WD Blue 2TB 256MB Cache 3.5 Inch - WD20EZBX $60 CAD @ Amazon.ca

You'd need a copy of Windows and maybe a Thermalright AXP-90i heatsink with Noctua fan but still, the total for above is only $734.25 CAD which would be about $571.64 USD. (Note: you could always use a Corsair CX 450 power supply instead of the Seasonic.) (And even with an AMD compatible mobo plus 5600G, it would still be cheap.) (Even the ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS WIFI is $190 CAD.)
 

Dan_D

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Just to make my point this might be trolling...

case: Cooler Master MasterBox Q300L $45 CAD @ Amazon.ca
power supply: Seasonic FOCUS GM-550 $73 CAD @ Newegg.ca
motherboard: ASRock B560M PRO4 $130 CAD @ Newegg.ca (Kindinformatique)
memory: Crucial Ballistix 3200 MHz DDR4 16GB BL2K8G32C16U4W $105 CAD @ Amazon.ca
CPU: Intel i5-11400 $255.25 CAD @ ShopRBC (shipping likely $13 CAD)
solid state drive: Western Digital WD BLACK SN750 M.2 2280 250GB WDS250TGB0E $53 CAD @ Amazon.ca
hard drive: WD Blue 2TB 256MB Cache 3.5 Inch - WD20EZBX $60 CAD @ Amazon.ca

You'd need a copy of Windows and maybe a Thermalright AXP-90i heatsink with Noctua fan but still, the total for above is only $734.25 CAD which would be about $571.64 USD. (Note: you could always use a Corsair CX 450 power supply instead of the Seasonic.) (And even with an AMD compatible mobo plus 5600G, it would still be cheap.) (Even the ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS WIFI is $190 CAD.)
What is your point? Why would an unrelated parts list that doesn't include a DDR5 motherboard or a 12th generation Intel CPU prove the OP is trolling?
 

Dan_D

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lol I meant the excessive cost.
Again, that doesn't really make any sense. How does a completely different and budget oriented configuration that doesn't have a 12th generation Intel CPU at all prove he's trolling? I'm in the U.S. and the cost of a 12900K and ASUS Maximus Z690 Extreme is pretty close to $2,000 right there. I've got an RTX 3090, Lian-Li O11-Dynamic XL case, and the new build will also have new radiators, distribution plate, fittings, etc. I don't have RAM yet and I'm pretty sure I'm easily past $4,000 US in parts so far.

Depending on the board and the final system configuration, 4,000 euros doesn't seem like it's all that hard to reach.
 

Denpepe

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Again, that doesn't really make any sense. How does a completely different and budget oriented configuration that doesn't have a 12th generation Intel CPU at all prove he's trolling? I'm in the U.S. and the cost of a 12900K and ASUS Maximus Z690 Extreme is pretty close to $2,000 right there. I've got an RTX 3090, Lian-Li O11-Dynamic XL case, and the new build will also have new radiators, distribution plate, fittings, etc. I don't have RAM yet and I'm pretty sure I'm easily past $4,000 US in parts so far.

Depending on the board and the final system configuration, 4,000 euros doesn't seem like it's all that hard to reach.
Yeah you don't realy need to overdo it, I made a bit of a build in PCpartpicker and got there pretty fast in no small part due to the GPU prices https://be.pcpartpicker.com/list/xm9NJf
 

Dan_D

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Yeah you don't realy need to overdo it, I made a bit of a build in PCpartpicker and got there pretty fast in no small part due to the GPU prices https://be.pcpartpicker.com/list/xm9NJf
There is no kill like overkill.

Seriously, I don't know when the forum transitioned to SoftOCP, but it did. Some of us like 4K gaming as we aren't all 1080P gamers. Some of us have specific needs or just want to build the best possible PC we can afford because we are enthusiasts.

EDIT: That said, I misunderstood your post initially. But you just confirmed what I said earlier. It doesn't take much to reach $4,000 these days.
 
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Denpepe

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There is no kill like overkill.

Seriously, I don't know when the forum transitioned to SoftOCP, but it did. Some of us like 4K gaming as we aren't all 1080P gamers. Some of us have specific needs or just want to build the best possible PC we can afford because we are enthusiasts.

EDIT: That said, I misunderstood your post initially. But you just confirmed what I said earlier. It doesn't take much to reach $4,000 these days.

I wanted to go for the Asus Hero, but when they anounced it at 699 I was nope, then when it actually launched in the 549€-599€ range with a 120€ cashback I was tempted but the lack of DDR5 convinced me not to go there, but those launch prices are a lot over what my XI Hero cost not that long ago. I'm looking into Strix/TUF territory now or the MSI MPG series.
 

wandplus

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There is no kill like overkill.

Seriously, I don't know when the forum transitioned to SoftOCP, but it did. Some of us like 4K gaming as we aren't all 1080P gamers. Some of us have specific needs or just want to build the best possible PC we can afford because we are enthusiasts.

EDIT: That said, I misunderstood your post initially. But you just confirmed what I said earlier. It doesn't take much to reach $4,000 these days.
Uh, if you're addressing me directly I suppose I got the idea from someone else earlier in the thread. I don't have a habit for looking at high-end parts.
I'm surprised the op wants to use Windows 11 ;)
I'm surprised anyone wants to use the latest right now. Some things like the fact that the Digital Rights Management in some games was incompatible (at least without patches) would make me hesitate. There are some things however that may look minor on the surface but the totally of it like DDR5 RAM runs hotter and Alder Lake CPUs may have heat spots that mean you have to pay attention to the orientation of the heatsink etc. that make me cautious. In any case, I might wait for Royal Core in 2024 before upgrading again anyway. ;)
 

Epyon

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i just went to ebay to see ddr 5 prices. 2000$ for 32gb of ram. Amazon had it listed @ 2700$ Well, So much for me buying a DS Velox in 2022. I guess my 3900x and 2080 is all i have for my 3d rendering hobby. see you guys in 2023 lol
 

wandplus

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i just went to ebay to see ddr 5 prices. 2000$ for 32gb of ram. Amazon had it listed @ 2700$ Well, So much for me buying a DS Velox in 2022. I guess my 3900x and 2080 is all i have for my 3d rendering hobby. see you guys in 2023 lol
Come to think of it, a Honda Rebel 300 is $4,600 US.
 

lopoetve

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You're saying a lot of things but most of it doesn't matter. intel claims to be/want to be a chip manufacturer for third parties. Unless they are going to swear off ever making PMICs for some reason. The main points of concern are if intel could actually make those chips if they saw a problem coming and assigned limited capacity to address it and if the companies that designed them would be willing to port to a new process. Its not impossible for Intel to approach relevant companies and attempt to improve the supply chain. This is already what they are doing in areas they care about. Its not unreasonable at all to expect intel to have at minimum had discussions with the relevant companies. Their approach can't be "w/e happens bro"

At the end of the day it comes down to planning and what each party wants.
That doesn't mean they can make any of those parts ~right now~. Their fabs aren't set up for that, they don't have the tape-out designs, they don't own the licenses for the designs, and they don't have a line free to do it (currently). Who knew that a PMIC would be a limited run item? I guarantee you that if the fabs that make it knew it would be in this high demand, they'd have been trying to make more of the things - that's pure revenue in their pocket - but EVERYTHING semiconductor wise is constrained right now. I'm speccing enterprise servers with 180+ day lead times! Things folks need next SEPTEMBER they're ordering right now, because that's the only way to guarantee delivery. And as they do so, the lead times increase, and more people order ahead of time - all of that kit is feeding off the same fabs. Even if they reached out to the designers of those parts and got a license, getting the tape-out design and the fab set up for making it is a 6 month + process, and unless the process and design shares a lot with other things, requires that it be dedicated to that product

Heck, certain NETWORK cards are constrained out over 200 days at this point. A bloody network card!

Fab machines aren't simple. Last I saw, the current 7nm systems come in SIX full size containers and take about 6 months to get set up - and that's assuming you have a place to even put the thing, and the requisite supplies to feed it.
 
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