Nvidia rtx 3090 discussion

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To put things in perspective of how bad this FTW3 is (and how good my XC3 is):

3090 FTW3 / XOC BIOS / 119% PL / +175 Core / +400 Memory = 20,337 (1910 MHz average clock)
3090 XC3 / Stock 366W BIOS / 104% PL / +175 Core / +400 Memory = 20,294 (1916 MHz average clock)

The FTW3 has a lower average clock despite scoring only 43 points higher (margin of error). At the same time it was pulling 390W average while my XC3 pulled 360W average. And this was with the FTW3 on the XOC BIOS!
Yikes, I'm only running +130 Core too... man, maybe it is a hardware issue then and I got lucky? What happens if you run stock on the FTW3? I think even stock my average clocks are higher than 1910Mhz... lol.

I think on my lowest Timespy run my average clocks were around 1940Mhz maybe? Still got around 21130 or so for the graphics score though. I actually did not see a huge gain by pushing my overclock as hard as possible.
 

nealx01

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this is from the EVGA forums and is a pretty good synopsis of the problems with the FTW3 cards. both the 3080 and 3090 FTW3 models are effected. not sure about the lower SKUs (3070 and 3060TI). i have my PCIE slot area shunted on my ftw3 and can pull whatever the bios power limit is for the bios im currently using. save for the kingpin XOC vbios
using that XOC bios i can pull 600w quite easily..(bios is capped to 1000w)
shunting the PCIE is essentially mandatory to get the FTW3 cards to act "as expected"


1611247967477.png

https://forums.evga.com/RTX-3090-KNGPN-Power-Draw-Issues-Page-2-m3181985-p2.aspx
post #31
 
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It appears that everyone's clocks with a EVGA 3090 under Timespy seem to average in the ~1900 range. Is the Strix BIOS just that more aggressive compared to its EVGA counterparts? Or is it just the watercooling helping to keep the GPU from down throttling under load? I suspect it's the water cooling keeping the throttling in check. Anyone with an EVGA 3090 board also running water here? Just curious about how they compare. I'm averaging a 35C temp on the GPU during a run (full EK block/backplate). https://www.3dmark.com/spy/17171434
 
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exlink

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Just packed up my 3090 FTW3 and am going to return it to Amazon. No reason to keep a card that performs on par (actually slightly worse) than my 3090 XC3 that is $200 cheaper.

I could RMA it with EVGA and probably get a new one (I think they usually send new units for RMAs within 30 days of purchase window), but since this issue appears to be somewhat common I’m just going to stick with my 3090 XC3 that isn’t having any issues. Not to mention the numerous reports of FTW3 cards dying on the EVGA forum isn’t exactly great to see either.
 

exlink

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Yikes, I'm only running +130 Core too... man, maybe it is a hardware issue then and I got lucky? What happens if you run stock on the FTW3? I think even stock my average clocks are higher than 1910Mhz... lol.

I think on my lowest Timespy run my average clocks were around 1940Mhz maybe? Still got around 21130 or so for the graphics score though. I actually did not see a huge gain by pushing my overclock as hard as possible.
My 3090 XC3 with an undervolt/overclock of 1995@950mV (+135) maintains an average clock speed of ~1940 MHz in Time Spy (score was 20.9K I believe, close to 21K). And once again, that is while pulling an average of 360W, significantly less than the FTW3. I’ll need to double check as I have the result somewhere.

This 3090 FTW3 was a complete dud. I haven’t been this disappointed in a GPU in years. Probably since the gimped HD 5870 I got a decade ago. EVGA needs to figure out the load balancing issue on these cards whether it’s through a hardware revision or firmware update (if possible). It’s seems to be too common of an issue.
 

lobstar

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To put things in perspective of how bad this FTW3 is (and how good my XC3 is):

3090 FTW3 / XOC BIOS / 119% PL / +175 Core / +400 Memory = 20,337 (1910 MHz average clock)
3090 XC3 / Stock 366W BIOS / 104% PL / +175 Core / +400 Memory = 20,294 (1916 MHz average clock)

The FTW3 has a lower average clock despite scoring only 43 points higher (margin of error). At the same time it was pulling 390W average while my XC3 pulled 360W average. And this was with the FTW3 on the XOC BIOS!
If your PCIe hits 78.9w your card will go into PerfCap PWR mode and heavily restrict the boost table. You can sorta manipulate this with very high clock offsets. If I offset with +360 I can see 2000 boost clocks with 84w PCIe draw until it crashes at a lower power scene. I've never seen average clocks in time spy over 1946mhz on either of my cards once they perfcap.
 
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I wonder if there is a way to tell when the card was manufactured and if that decides who does and does not have this issue.

Am I the only one here who does NOT have this issue with the PCIe chocking everything? If I go higher than +160 on the GPU core, things simply crash because I've clearly hit a stability limit when boost clocks go above 2100Mhz without opening up more headroom. I am on the default 450W vbios and I am always "PWR" limited looking at GPUz at 449W, PCIe never goes above 75W and the 8-Pin rails will fluctuate between 125W~140W depending on the game/load.
 

exlink

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This is my highest ever clock average on this card. I got this with very carefully stepping under the perfcap. https://www.3dmark.com/spy/17408535
https://hardforum.com/threads/nvidia-rtx-3090-discussion.2001549/post-1044871281

That was my best undervolt/overclock so far on the XC3. 1937 average clock, GPU temp of 50°C since it was at 925mV.

I wonder if there is a way to tell when the card was manufactured and if that decides who does and does not have this issue.

Am I the only one here who does NOT have this issue with the PCIe chocking everything? If I go higher than +160 on the GPU core, things simply crash because I've clearly hit a stability limit when boost clocks go above 2100Mhz without opening up more headroom. I am on the default 450W vbios and I am always "PWR" limited looking at GPUz at 449W, PCIe never goes above 75W and the 8-Pin rails will fluctuate between 125W~140W depending on the game/load.
There are people on the EVGA forum in the XOC BIOS thread that don’t have issues either. But there are still a LOT of FTW3s in that same thread that have the issue. I believe EVGA even said they recognized the load balancing issue and were looking into it. But that was back in October I think and now it’s January. They have been silent since.
 
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https://hardforum.com/threads/nvidia-rtx-3090-discussion.2001549/post-1044871281

That was my best undervolt/overclock so far on the XC3. 1937 average clock, GPU temp of 50°C since it was at 925mV.


There are people on the EVGA forum in the XOC BIOS thread that don’t have issues either. But there are still a LOT of FTW3s in that same thread that have the issue. I believe EVGA even said they recognized the load balancing issue and were looking into it. But that was back in October I think and now it’s January. They have been silent since.

Interesting, the thing is, people moding their cards to pull more PCIe power to "fix" the ratios are playing with fire IMO. The spec for PCIe reads as followed: "A full-sized x16 graphics card may draw up to 5.5 A at +12 V (66 W) and 75 W combined after initialization and software configuration as a "high power device".

What I wonder is; if I do not have the issue on the 450W vBios, if I go with XOC, will my 500W come from the 8-Pin connectors or is that some sort of hack to pull more PCIe power and use the ratio to do the work on the Pins as well?

Hmmmmmmm.... :unsure:
 
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I just checked mine... it is a 2012 made in China. Works the way I'd expect it too and I also have the "Black Lips" vs. the older Red ones.
 
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It’s basically a lottery at this point and my FTW3 lost...miserably.
Yeah, I bet it has to be a hardware defect as the vbios is the same. Does have me slightly worried though something may go wrong at some point, but the same was true with my 2080Ti when all those issues were happening and that card worked great for me over 2 years.

As hard as these things were to get after 4 months, I mostly got this because it was the only 3090 I was actually able to get my hands on... lol. I am happy with it so far though, although an XC3 probably would have been perfectly fine for me as well, but I prefer the larger PCB for air cooling reasons as I have no plans to go water on this card and enjoy the extra temperature sensors.

But seriously, what is the "firmware" update people keep talking about in PX1? Mine has never asked me to update anything...
 

Light1984

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Chiming in to note I have a 2014 black lip Taiwan that I did not update with PX1 and I do not hit the pcie limit. Pins 1-3 seem to be balanced well. No overclocks yet. This is all stock on air. Firmware is .15

tvUQTk6.png
 

exlink

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Yeah, I bet it has to be a hardware defect as the vbios is the same. Does have me slightly worried though something may go wrong at some point, but the same was true with my 2080Ti when all those issues were happening and that card worked great for me over 2 years.

As hard as these things were to get after 4 months, I mostly got this because it was the only 3090 I was actually able to get my hands on... lol. I am happy with it so far though, although an XC3 probably would have been perfectly fine for me as well, but I prefer the larger PCB for air cooling reasons as I have no plans to go water on this card and enjoy the extra temperature sensors.

But seriously, what is the "firmware" update people keep talking about in PX1? Mine has never asked me to update anything...
Who knows with this generation of EVGA cards. Quite a few FTW3s are suffering from load balancing issues and some are just randomly dying after working completely fine for days/weeks/months. Both at stock and overclocked. The cause is unknown to the public so we don’t know if only some FTW3s are affected by a defect or if all FTW3s are affected and are essentially ticking time bombs. For as good as EVGA has been with their customer service, they have been pretty quiet about the load balancing issues and random “red light of deaths”. If my XC3 dies I’m getting it RMA’d and selling the replacement to get a different brand this generation. But I hope it doesn’t come to that.
 
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Who knows with this generation of EVGA cards. Quite a few FTW3s are suffering from load balancing issues and some are just randomly dying after working completely fine for days/weeks/months. Both at stock and overclocked. The cause is unknown to the public so we don’t know if only some FTW3s are affected by a defect or if all FTW3s are affected and are essentially ticking time bombs. For as good as EVGA has been with their customer service, they have been pretty quiet about the load balancing issues and random “red light of deaths”. If my XC3 dies I’m getting it RMA’d and selling the replacement to get a different brand this generation. But I hope it doesn’t come to that.
Ohhhh great.... :( Well crossing my fingers then for the both of us... lol. I guess worst comes to worst, I could RMA the 3090 FTW3... and I'm glad I kept my 2080Ti as a backup to use if that ever happens. I'd probably keep the RMA card though if I had too as hard as these cards are to get right now. The performance (for me anyway) is a must at 4K. My 2080Ti did pretty good, but running RT at the highest settings proved hard to maintain at 4K on many games, were i can fully max things out now with no problem.
 

noko

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Who knows with this generation of EVGA cards. Quite a few FTW3s are suffering from load balancing issues and some are just randomly dying after working completely fine for days/weeks/months. Both at stock and overclocked. The cause is unknown to the public so we don’t know if only some FTW3s are affected by a defect or if all FTW3s are affected and are essentially ticking time bombs. For as good as EVGA has been with their customer service, they have been pretty quiet about the load balancing issues and random “red light of deaths”. If my XC3 dies I’m getting it RMA’d and selling the replacement to get a different brand this generation. But I hope it doesn’t come to that.
Sounds like for me keeping the XC3 totally stock would be the best choice. I just don't see the more expensive cards giving a meaningful gaming experience uplift. Shunt modding looks relatively easy on the EVGA cards, I would just do the two pcie connectors on XC3 shut resistors using conductive paint and some hot glue except I think that would be virtually a waste of time now. Going after meaningless 3dMark numbers from my view is pointless. Putting a water block or using an EVGA Hybrid kit would probably give the most performance uplift. Unless EVGA puts out a higher power limit, it stays stock for now.
 

exlink

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Sounds like for me keeping the XC3 totally stock would be the best choice. I just don't see the more expensive cards giving a meaningful gaming experience uplift. Shunt modding looks relatively easy on the EVGA cards, I would just do the two pcie connectors on XC3 shut resistors using conductive paint and some hot glue except I think that would be virtually a waste of time now. Going after meaningless 3dMark numbers from my view is pointless. Putting a water block or using an EVGA Hybrid kit would probably give the most performance uplift. Unless EVGA puts out a higher power limit, it stays stock for now.
Honestly, I’ve been the most satisfied with my 3090 XC3 by undervolting it. With Ampere you typically see more consistent high clock speeds and frame rates with undervolting.

In CyberPunk 2077 I’m probably averaging 1925-1950 MHz at 1995@950mV. Going to see if I can get closer to 2000 MHz with a waterblock. Maybe 2010@950mV or 2025@975mV will get me there under water.

Paying more to get a higher power limit card so I can average 50-100 MHz more just doesn’t seem worth it anymore as it seems to only translate to a couple more frames anyway. Diminishing returns seems to set in once you hit 2000 MHz in most games on the 3090.
 
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Honestly, I’ve been the most satisfied with my 3090 XC3 by undervolting it. With Ampere you typically see more consistent high clock speeds and frame rates with undervolting.

In CyberPunk 2077 I’m probably averaging 1925-1950 MHz at 1995@950mV. Going to see if I can get closer to 2000 MHz with a waterblock. Maybe 2010@950mV or 2025@975mV will get me there under water.

Paying more to get a higher power limit card so I can average 50-100 MHz more just doesn’t seem worth it anymore as it seems to only translate to a couple more frames anyway. Diminishing returns seems to set in once you hit 2000 MHz in most games on the 3090.
How TF do you undervolt these things properly in PX1? Or do you all use something else? Every time I try, the damn curve only holds as long as I do not touch anything else. As long as it seems to take to set, I just give up and throw everything at full value and see how far it goes till it crashes... :LOL:

Also, I don't think more power does much for these anyway beyond slightly higher clocks as you mentioned. The largest denominator is temperature. If you can keep it cool, the boosts stay higher.

Going from +500 to +1000Mhz on the memory netted me less than 0.5% increase in Timespy and almost nothing in actual game benchmarks in terms of FPS. As for Core Clocks, trying to push above 2000Mhz did not do a damn thing other than create more heat.
 

exlink

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How TF do you undervolt these things properly in PX1? Or do you all use something else? Every time I try, the damn curve only holds as long as I do not touch anything else. As long as it seems to take to set, I just give up and throw everything at full value and see how far it goes till it crashes... :LOL:

Also, I don't think more power does much for these anyway beyond slightly higher clocks as you mentioned. The largest denominator is temperature. If you can keep it cool, the boosts stay higher.

Going from +500 to +1000Mhz on the memory netted me less than 0.5% increase in Timespy and almost nothing in actual game benchmarks in terms of FPS. As for Core Clocks, trying to push above 2000Mhz did not do a damn thing other than create more heat.
I use the VF Curve in MSI Afterburner (accessed by pressing Ctrl + F). A Hardforum user created a nice guide to help people with undervolting these cards:

https://hardforum.com/threads/rtx-3000-series-undervolt-discussion.2003050/
 
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I use the VF Curve in MSI Afterburner (accessed by pressing Ctrl + F). A Hardforum user created a nice guide to help people with undervolting these cards:

https://hardforum.com/threads/rtx-3000-series-undervolt-discussion.2003050/
Man, thanks for pointing that out... same idea works for PX1 (just tried it on my "break"... lol). I had my clock pretty much LOCKED at 2040Mhz letting Valley just loop. Temps were slightly lower, which is probably why the boost held.

Damn, never thought about doing this trick!
 

exlink

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Man, thanks for pointing that out... same idea works for PX1 (just tried it on my "break"... lol). I had my clock pretty much LOCKED at 2040Mhz letting Valley just loop. Temps were slightly lower, which is probably why the boost held.

Damn, never thought about doing this trick!
Its the way to go with Ampere. I prefer having more consistent sustained clocks than having the core clock jump all over the place so it can boost 50-100 Mhz higher for a split second.
 

kamxam

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I have a 3090 Kingpin and it seems to be running within specs so far.
Only got in the 9K range in Basic Timespy but from what i have read the Benchmark doesn't like to play nice with AMD CPU's. (Especially TR) :( (Did get a top 95% in the Timespy Upgrade benchmark test though so that's something at least)
 
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Its the way to go with Ampere. I prefer having more consistent sustained clocks than having the core clock jump all over the place so it can boost 50-100 Mhz higher for a split second.
Oddly, while the clocks were locked higher, by dipping less and raising less, it made 0 difference in benchmarks or game benchmarks... lol. So although its annoying to watch, nvidia boost must know what its doing? 😆

Wish I could just tell it to run max voltage at a clock all the time in a game. Like, 70c is no where close to the limit, just let me sail man!
 

exlink

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Oddly, while the clocks were locked higher, by dipping less and raising less, it made 0 difference in benchmarks or game benchmarks... lol. So although its annoying to watch, nvidia boost must know what its doing? 😆

Wish I could just tell it to run max voltage at a clock all the time in a game. Like, 70c is no where close to the limit, just let me sail man!
The thing with benchmarks is that they just give you a result roughly based on the average performance. That’s why you won’t see much of a difference in the scores. If without the undervolt you jump between 1900-2000 with random spikes to 2100 but with the undervolt you’re locked at 1950 then the benchmark results will be nearly the same. But when playing some games I notice the increased frame rate consistency from locked clock speeds as well as slightly reduced thermals. I’ve noticed in some games Ampere has a habit of bouncing off the power limit (could be why it’s less effective on your FTW3 since it has a higher PL) so that’s where the inconsistency in clock speeds and frame rate can come from.
 
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The thing with benchmarks is that they just give you a result roughly based on the average performance. That’s why you won’t see much of a difference in the scores. If without the undervolt you jump between 1900-2000 with random spikes to 2100 but with the undervolt you’re locked at 1950 then the benchmark results will be nearly the same. But when playing some games I notice the increased frame rate consistency from locked clock speeds as well as slightly reduced thermals. I’ve noticed in some games Ampere has a habit of bouncing off the power limit (could be why it’s less effective on your FTW3 since it has a higher PL) so that’s where the inconsistency in clock speeds and frame rate can come from.
Yeah, I played some BFV tonight, but just used my standard "balls to the wall" OC for it... was not sure I had my "fixed" OC stable yet. Might have to try it tomorrow evening and see if it keeps a more consistent frame rate. I kept looking at GPUz though and my clock was pretty much 2025Mhz in BFV the entire time. Would sometimes bounce down to 1960Mhz or as high as 2040Mhz... but did not bounce nearly as bad as Timespy does. Hard to say if the effort will really be worth it for the fixed voltage thing... but I guess I will ensure stability first then try testing it in some games.

It does make me want to try that XOC vbios tho... lol
 
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lobstar

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It does make me want to try that XOC vbios tho... lol
Are you on a 3090 FTW3 or FTW3U? If so, it does not void your warranty or anything critical. I had mentioned that it was one of the various bios(es?) that I had tried in my troubleshooting and overclocking attempts in my tickets to support. No pressure, but you can always flash it back since you have the dual bios switch. I can link the info on how to recover if you want to do more research.
 
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Are you on a 3090 FTW3 or FTW3U? If so, it does not void your warranty or anything critical. I had mentioned that it was one of the various bios(es?) that I had tried in my troubleshooting and overclocking attempts in my tickets to support. No pressure, but you can always flash it back since you have the dual bios switch. I can link the info on how to recover if you want to do more research.
I have a FTW3U... I saw the original evga thread from October for the 500W bios... is that the latest version of the bios or has there been any updates since?
 

exlink

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I have a FTW3U... I saw the original evga thread from October for the 500W bios... is that the latest version of the bios or has there been any updates since?
Sadly it’s the only one they’ve released since then. There is apparently a new one coming “soon” according to the EVGA Germany forum but it may be updated just for resizable BAR support and no other improvements. We shall see.
 
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Maybe I'll give it a shot this evening if it does not void the warranty. Not looking for a higher OC per say, but rather to keep the power from being the limit. I noticed last night when gaming for while that when Vrel is the limit, there is no clock bounce, but when pwr is the limit, thats when it bounces off. So if I can raise the power limit and the Voltage is the limit, maybe i can just hold boost in game.
 

exlink

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So I've decided I'm going to see if EVGA fixes the issues with the 3090 FTW3 (load balancing, red light of death) before my step-up period is over (60 more days). If they fix it through either hardware revision or software update then I'll step up my 3090 XC3 to the FTW3. If not, I'll just keep the XC3. I'm itching to get a card that I can push, but I'm not going to play both the silicon lottery and load balancing lottery with the current FTW3s.
 
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In the days of easy GPU buying, I'd say keep going back to the store till you get one you like! lol. Those days seem to be long over... I was just happy to snag a card period (even if it cost more). I'm not gonna squabble over 2~3% performance in the end (if that). :LOL: It already does worlds better than my 2080Ti did!
 

exlink

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In the days of easy GPU buying, I'd say keep going back to the store till you get one you like! lol. Those days seem to be long over... I was just happy to snag a card period (even if it cost more). I'm not gonna squabble over 2~3% performance in the end (if that). :LOL: It already does worlds better than my 2080Ti did!
Well you lucked out to at least not be impacted by the load balancing issue. The biggest reason to get the FTW3 over the XC3 is for the significantly higher power limit. If you pay $200 more for a FTW3 that suffers from load balancing issues and performs about the same as an XC3 then you feel scammed.

I have a feeling that this (along with the red light of death) is a hardware issue that is going to be fixed in a PCB revision. My guess is that there will be a new PCB that will be released with the 3080 Ti and will be shared with the 3080 and 3090. That would explain why EVGA has been silent about the issue and potentially why the Hydro Copper cards have been delayed. I’m guessing the Hydro Copper blocks will be specific to the new PCB revision. All speculation of course.
 
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Well you lucked out to at least not be impacted by the load balancing issue. The biggest reason to get the FTW3 over the XC3 is for the significantly higher power limit. If you pay $200 more for a FTW3 that suffers from load balancing issues and performs about the same as an XC3 then you feel scammed.

I have a feeling that this (along with the red light of death) is a hardware issue that is going to be fixed in a PCB revision. My guess is that there will be a new PCB that will be released with the 3080 Ti and will be shared with the 3080 and 3090. That would explain why EVGA has been silent about the issue and potentially why the Hydro Copper cards have been delayed. I’m guessing the Hydro Copper blocks will be specific to the new PCB revision. All speculation of course.
Yes. And technically evga does not have to replace the older cards unless you require an RMA from a dead card. evga simply needs to claim, does it hit the 1800Mhz guaranteed without crashing? If so, then you technically got what you paid for.

I agree with you though, if I had a bad card, I'd be pissed too considering the premium you pay for a larger PCB for better cooling to maintain higher clocks.
 

lobstar

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Yes. And technically evga does not have to replace the older cards unless you require an RMA from a dead card. evga simply needs to claim, does it hit the 1800Mhz guaranteed without crashing? If so, then you technically got what you paid for.
That's not entirely true. If your EVGA card is exposing other hardware to possible failure you have the right to get a product that works properly. Since this card advertises it's compatibility with PCIe Gen4 x16 in it's specs one can assume it follows the rules of the specification and thus purchase other hardware accordingly. It is very easy with the affected cards to generate a situation where the power draw over PCIe continuously exceeds 75w at stock clocks/power limits. I just cannot stress enough how bad this issue is. It's stressing the weakest part of the power delivery system in the card just as much as one of the three 8-pin power connectors. The 8-pins are rated for at least 150w; why stress the PCIe power so much? We're just lucky the default safety settings are about 80w so most mid to high end motherboards / PSUs should be ok at only 7% increase power draw. I really worry about people on the Kingpin bios with these cards ...
 
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