24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

Derupter

Limp Gawd
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You did well,fast tests to see how much can do the dac,for quality and stability tests use only your classic resolutions,we don't know the temperature reached by the chip,better not to risk breaking the adapter
 

Enhanced Interrogator

[H]ard|Gawd
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Anyway, it's funny to see how high pixel clock can climb but it's not really necessary to find the limit: none of our CRTs can use more than 400 Mhz.

Yes they can. Use Toasty X's pixel clock patcher and you can go over 500mHz on a normal graphics card with analog out. Displays just fine on my CRT's as long as the horizontal scan rate is within range.
 

Derupter

Limp Gawd
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Yes they can. Use Toasty X's pixel clock patcher and you can go over 500mHz on a normal graphics card with analog out. Displays just fine on my CRT's as long as the horizontal scan rate is within range.

About that 2720 limit,i have the same problem and yes it is an AMD artificial limit,at least on my 7950 on windows system.
 

Strat_84

Limp Gawd
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Yes they can. Use Toasty X's pixel clock patcher and you can go over 500mHz on a normal graphics card with analog out. Displays just fine on my CRT's as long as the horizontal scan rate is within range.
Yes but the practical use is very limited.

Using resolutions with such pixel clocks while staying in the horizontal scan rate limits implies to use vertical refresh rates way lower than 80hz, and that means flickering.
 

Enhanced Interrogator

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Yes but the practical use is very limited.

Using resolutions with such pixel clocks while staying in the horizontal scan rate limits implies to use vertical refresh rates way lower than 80hz, and that means flickering.

Tons of reasons to need that higher pixel clock. Number one is that there are tons of 16:9-only, 60hz games these days, like Street Fighter 5. So for those games, if your graphics card could handle it, you can run pretty high widescreen resolutions without breaking the horizontal scan limit on your CRT. My LaCie has a 140kHz limit, so it could feasibly display a 4k60p game since the horizontal scan rate would be around 135kHz.

So yeah, your monitor won't be able to resolve every horizontal pixel because of the apeture grille, but it will still look noticeably better. Like an analog version of DSR/VSR.

As for the flicker, we used 60hz CRT's for 70 years and made it out ok. Yeah, and very white screens you can notice the flicker. But in games with a range of color and hues, I rarely notice flicker. That said, I do appreciate higher refresh rates when possible.

Even if you're totally opposed to 60hz, there are lower, but still pretty high, resolutions like 2880x1620@80hz that require a very high pixel clock (around 550mHz) but are still within the 140kHz limit of high-end CRT's.

Why do you want interlace resolutions that high anyway?

I'm more interested in the high refresh rates than the resolution per-se. Like say you want to run Ultra settings on a game at 2304x1728, but you can only really maintain 40fps consistently with your GPU. 40hz progressive is to flickery, so instead you make an 80hz interlaced (windows would say 40hz) and cap your frame rate to 40fps or use something like Nvidia's Double vsync to hold at 40. Even better, if your DAC and monitor can handle it, you could go 120hz, which is the next multiple of 40. This would cut down on flickering even more, and reduce input lag by another 6 or so milliseconds.

This isn't a common thing I do, but I currently use it to play Battlefield 1 at 45fps. I really didn't want to give up Ultra settings and a decent resolution, so I play at 1680x1260 interlaced at 135hz, with frame rate capped in-game at 45.
 

Aktan

Weaksauce
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About the Sunix DPU3000,that micro usb cable is needed or it works even without it?

Well it didn't come with one but yea I didn't need the extra power. I forgot about it. Maybe I can go higher with power there or fix stability if it becomes unstable.

Edit: To be clear, I did not use the micro USB
 

Derupter

Limp Gawd
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Maybe it is required if you use other adapters connected to DPU3000,or if you use all the outputs together.
 

Aktan

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I'm more interested in the high refresh rates than the resolution per-se. Like say you want to run Ultra settings on a game at 2304x1728, but you can only really maintain 40fps consistently with your GPU. 40hz progressive is to flickery, so instead you make an 80hz interlaced (windows would say 40hz) and cap your frame rate to 40fps or use something like Nvidia's Double vsync to hold at 40. Even better, if your DAC and monitor can handle it, you could go 120hz, which is the next multiple of 40. This would cut down on flickering even more, and reduce input lag by another 6 or so milliseconds.

This isn't a common thing I do, but I currently use it to play Battlefield 1 at 45fps. I really didn't want to give up Ultra settings and a decent resolution, so I play at 1680x1260 interlaced at 135hz, with frame rate capped in-game at 45.

I never thought this is a way to use interlace. I mean when I did 30 Hz interlace, it was too much flicker for me. I'll read up on this method.
 

Ivica

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theoretically, what would be the highest possible resolution the FW900 can manage with the help of a pixelclock beyond 600 like in the DPU3000? 1440p should be fine. how about 1620p (or maybe even higher)?
 

Enhanced Interrogator

[H]ard|Gawd
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theoretically, what would be the highest possible resolution the FW900 can manage with the help of a pixelclock beyond 600 like in the DPU3000? 1440p should be fine. how about 1620p (or maybe even higher)?

Doesn't the FW900 have a max horizontal scan of like 127kHz? So I don't think that's enough for 4k60p, but you could do 4k96i for 24 and 48fps movies.

I never thought this is a way to use interlace. I mean when I did 30 Hz interlace, it was too much flicker for me. I'll read up on this method.

It's definitely not a thing I use a lot. I play the vast majority of my games in progressive, like almost all of them. But there have been a handful of games over the years where an interlaced resolution worked out better for the resolution, frame rate, quality settings, and monitor I was using.
 
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Aktan

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so did we find something better then the delock adapter?

Seems like it, but I am only 1 sample, lol. Also Delock adapter may be cheaper, so if you don't need that high of a pixel clock and you're in Europe, the Delock adapter might be the better way when they fix the connector.
 

Derupter

Limp Gawd
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Image quality looks fine, I'll be using it for a while to test. I need to get a mini DP to DP cable first to use my new GPU as it came with only a mini DP to mini DP cable, which my old GPU supports.

Be careful when you will buy the mini DP to DP cable,the standard VESA says that those cables must not have the power pin connected.It isn't a big problem because the market is full of not standard cables,but be sure to buy one with all the 20 pins connected and the shortest possible.
If you can't find the right cable maybe you can use the additional power of the DPU3000,but you will need the USB Type-A to Micro USB Cable.
If Delock will fix the 62967 for the European users there will be two choices:
the 62967 for 15-20 euro with pixel clock between 340-350 MHz
the 87685 for 80 euro with its infinite pixel clock (if it works like Sunix)
 
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Aktan

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Be careful when you will buy the mini DP to DP cable,the standard VESA says that those cables must not have the power pin connected.It isn't a big problem because the market is full of not standard cables,but be sure to buy one with all the 20 pins connected and the shortest possible.
If you can't find the right cable maybe you can use the additional power of the DPU3000,but you will need the USB Type-A to Micro USB Cable.

Oh shoot, I just bought like the cheapest cable I could find, lol. It comes Saturday. I hope it works.
 

jbltecnicspro

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Heh, so apparently the PVM monitor can edit/adjust a ton of stuff in the service menu (landing, white balance, fine white balance - whatever that means, among other things). I think I'm hooked. I'll probably end up getting a 14 inch version, as I actually like the smaller screen format.
 

Enhanced Interrogator

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Heh, so apparently the PVM monitor can edit/adjust a ton of stuff in the service menu (landing, white balance, fine white balance - whatever that means, among other things). I think I'm hooked. I'll probably end up getting a 14 inch version, as I actually like the smaller screen format.

And it saves separate geometry settings for the underscan and overscan buttons. On my PVM's I have underscan set for 16:9 material like Zelda Skyward Sword. Overscan is set to blow up windowboxed games like Starfox.
 

jbltecnicspro

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And it saves separate geometry settings for the underscan and overscan buttons. On my PVM's I have underscan set for 16:9 material like Zelda Skyward Sword. Overscan is set to blow up windowboxed games like Starfox.

You must have a fancy pants one. My PVM doesn't have an overscan-underscan button. :D
 

Aktan

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Sorry,i should have told you before,cheapest usually are non standard.
Cable length?

Well I got the cable yesterday and didn't have a chance to try until now. The cable doesn't work without power from USB port =/ You were right. How do I go about and find a cable that will work?
 

Derupter

Limp Gawd
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You have to look in the negative comments of cables on Amazon or other stores,search for things like monitor standby problems,20 pin or power pin problems,ecc.
You can ask Sunix if they sell that 10 cm cable separately or try with the USB cable if it costs less.
Another problem can be the length of the cable,with the 20 pins cable the adapter will work for sure,but the greater length can degrade the Displayport signal.
Or you can use a resizing adapter certified for 4k like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matter...69237&sr=1-3&keywords=mini+displayport+female
these adapters have all the pins connected,but you have an additional connection that can degrade the signal more than the length.
It can works without problems even with a degraded signal,it all depends by the sensibility of the chipset.
 

Aktan

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You have to look in the negative comments of cables on Amazon or other stores,search for things like monitor standby problems,20 pin or power pin problems,ecc.
You can ask Sunix if they sell that 10 cm cable separately or try with the USB cable if it costs less.
Another problem can be the length of the cable,with the 20 pins cable the adapter will work for sure,but the greater length can degrade the Displayport signal.
Or you can use a resizing adapter certified for 4k like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matter...69237&sr=1-3&keywords=mini+displayport+female
these adapters have all the pins connected,but you have an additional connection that can degrade the signal more than the length.
It can works without problems even with a degraded signal,it all depends by the sensibility of the chipset.

I mean I think mine supports 4k too. I should try USB way. I do get a split second black screen like once every 2 days. It's very random. USB power may fix that. Besides that, the picture never changes and looks good to me.
 

Strat_84

Limp Gawd
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Guys, I unexpectedly received my Sunix adapter today.

I confirm it displays 2304x1440@80hz. No obvious quality issue like trails behind characters. Image may be a little blurrier than when using a native VGA input, but I did the test on a spare FW900 with convergence and colors off so it is hard to say with certainty.

More in-depth quality checks and input lag tests later this week when I have time for it. ;)

Also, regarding the micro-USB power supply, it is necessary for proper operation even though the adapter seems to work without. The manual clearly says it is needed if the blue light is dim, and indeed it's noticeably brighter with the extra power. That cable was included in the bundle as long as a displayport -> mini-displayport cable.
 

Meeho

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This is great news! I was afraid I was going to have to go with terrible LCDs if I wanted a new GPU.
 

Aktan

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Guys, I unexpectedly received my Sunix adapter today.

I confirm it displays 2304x1440@80hz. No obvious quality issue like trails behind characters. Image may be a little blurrier than when using a native VGA input, but I did the test on a spare FW900 with convergence and colors off so it is hard to say with certainty.

More in-depth quality checks and input lag tests later this week when I have time for it. ;)

Also, regarding the micro-USB power supply, it is necessary for proper operation even though the adapter seems to work without. The manual clearly says it is needed if the blue light is dim, and indeed it's noticeably brighter with the extra power. That cable was included in the bundle as long as a displayport -> mini-displayport cable.

That's interesting. I have 2 Sunix adapters hooked up right now. One with USB and without, and both look the same in terms of brightness of the blue light. I don't see a picture difference in either also. I'm still testing to see if the random blank out every few days goes away. Both of mine didn't come with a micro USB cable. What GPU do you have?

Edit: I read the manual. It says some GPU don't supply enough power. I'm guessing your GPU doesn't supply enough power then. It's only require if the light is dim.
 
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Strat_84

Limp Gawd
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That's interesting. I have 2 Sunix adapters hooked up right now. One with USB and without, and both look the same in terms of brightness of the blue light. I don't see a picture difference in either also. I'm still testing to see if the random blank out every few days goes away. Both of mine didn't come with a micro USB cable. What GPU do you have?
I tested that behind an AMD HD5850 and a R9 380X.
 

Aktan

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I tested that behind an AMD HD5850 and a R9 380X.

The older HD5850 I can see maybe not supplying enough power, but I'm surprise on the R9 380X which is newer than my R9 280X. I have no idea now. Now I'm thinking maybe my mini DP to DP adapter may have work and maybe my new GPU doesn't supply any power, lol.

Edit: I am also awaiting for your testing to see if you get the same results as me =). Glad it came early!
 

Strat_84

Limp Gawd
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Maybe try to plug/unplug the USB cable and see if the brightness of the light varies ? It's how I noticed it.

Also both cards are from Sapphire. Given their reputation it wouldn't be too surprising if they had forgotten to connect a "facultative" power track on the displayport connector to save half a cent. :whistle:
 

Aktan

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Maybe try to plug/unplug the USB cable and see if the brightness of the light varies ? It's how I noticed it.

Also both cards are from Sapphire. Given their reputation it wouldn't be too surprising if they had forgotten to connect a "facultative" power track on the displayport connector to save half a cent. :whistle:

I just did that and the brightness looks the same. It could be true that they just didn't connect it, lol. Only thing is, my new card is an AMD reference card, so I'd be really surprise if they forget too, lol.
 

Derupter

Limp Gawd
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The power pin on a displayport source is not facultative,it's a fundamental requirement.
A graphic card with displayport should provide 3.3v 500mA,if not,it is totally out of specs.
A box with only a displayport female input connector (like Sunix) must provide an external source for power,otherwise would be out of specs.
If the adapter doesn't work without the external power,it's only because the displayport cable doesn't have the power pin connected,which is a VESA spec.
Unfortunately some manufacturers do not meet the specifications and the displayport market is a mess.
Anyway:
Sunix DPU3000 Power Consumption 1.45W (don't know if max or normal)
Displayport 3.3V 500mA (1.65W Max)
Classic USB 2.0 power 5V 500mA (2.5W Max)
 
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Strat_84

Limp Gawd
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Well, it's hard to know what the culprit is exactly, but since my mini-DP -> DP cable was provided with the adapter, I would expect it to have all the necessary pins connected.

BTW mine is a Sunix DPU3000-D3 from Amazon.com, in case that can explain the differences in bundle with Aktan's.
 

Derupter

Limp Gawd
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Yes,all the Sunix cables are not standard and they are all with the power pin connected,if it isn't sufficient,connect the additional power from USB or connect them both if you want to stay safe.If you want to change the cable (example a longer cable) and if that doesn't have the power pin,the USB power alone should be sufficient.
 
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I have the DPU3000-D3 version and am able to get 2560x1600@72. Question is whats the absolute max resolution/refresh this monitor can do?
 
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