DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

krcm0209

n00b
Joined
Jul 4, 2016
Messages
58
I received the case yesterday and started building immediately. The build was really helpful and it was easy to swap my components from another case into the A4. The manual is really well done!

But then I booted the pc, to a black screen (nobios) but all fans are spinning and the gaming lights on the motherboard were all on. I decided to pull out the powercord and let flow out all the current by holding the power button.

Then I tried it again. And it booted all the way to Windows! Then I shut it down and tried again. But no luck, the black screen returned. Now every time before turning on the pc I need to unplug the powercord to fix it.

I can also feel a low electric current flowing through the top-and-front metal plate but not in the side panels when I place my finger on it. Could that be a possible cause and do I need to ground the case in some way? I thought the case was already grounded?
I also hear a click-sound at the moment the lights on the motherboard and gpu turn off when I unplug the powercord and hold the power button.
If you have the equipment to do it I might recommend seeing if there is any significant power draw while your system is "off."
 

tviceman

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
398
I have some bad news. I tried swapping the fan on my Cryorig C7 with the Cryorig XT140 that supposedly is 2mm slimmer, but in reality it really appears to be the exact same thickness as the C7.
Here are my results. As for noise, I think the XL140 is ever so slightly more quiet, but my wife thought it was equally loud (AKA not acceptable!)

PS: This is an i7 2600K at stock

So the 14mm fan actually performed worse? Amazon RMA, here I come. Man this sucks, I don't know what to do. I can't live with the noise the c7 makes inside the A4, but solutions that can equal the C7 at an adequate price seem absent.
 
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Ca11idus

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
500
Please don't mislead other people without checking the numbers.

1) K CPUs generate a lot of extra waste heat. For example, the difference between 7700K and 7700 playing the same video game can be 25 degrees. Thats is 30% more heat for ~3% more fps. Physics is quite simple, more Watts = more heat. Read the review here:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-kaby-lake-core-i7-7700k-i7-7700-i5-7600k-i5-7600,4870.html

2) Resale value is technically better for K CPUs, but only by ~0.5%, totally insignificant. Also i5s are better resale value than i7s. (i5s are also cooler).
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_value_available.html

So considering cooling limitations of the Dan case, I would absolutely recommend buying a non-K CPU. I think i7-7700 or even an i5-7600 would be ideal for AR05 / Li9.

Cool story. Both CPUs operate at different frequencies. They are the exact same die. Getting a 7700k gives you more options to under lock and undervolt while reaching the desired perf/temp ratio. It will still out perform the 7700, have better resale value, aaaaand whenever you decide to upgrade or swap to another build you have an unlocked processor.
 

krcm0209

n00b
Joined
Jul 4, 2016
Messages
58
Cool story. Both CPUs operate at different frequencies. They are the exact same die. Getting a 7700k gives you more options to under lock and undervolt while reaching the desired perf/temp ratio. It will still out perform the 7700, have better resale value, aaaaand whenever you decide to upgrade or swap to another build you have an unlocked processor.
Intel's spec sheet for the 7700k lists it as 91W TDP, and the 7700 as 65W TDP. That's all the info I need.
 

Blackreplica

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 9, 2016
Messages
205
There was some mention here and there of using the C7 heatsink with the Noctua L9i fan...does anyone know if this gets rid of the noise while giving the c7 superior cooling performance?

If anyone has done this, could you also let us know how you secured the noctua fan to the C7 heatsink?

I've got both the C7 and L9i and am thinking of cannibalising the fan from the noctua to use with the C7 if it improves temps/noise

Edit: i just compared the noctua to the c7 fan. Theres hardly any difference between them. 2-3mm at the most. I have my doubts whether this difference would be enough to solve the noise issue

Ok securing the noctua fan to the c7 heatsink is possible with cable ties. Using the noctua fan, you save a grand freaking total of 2mm compared to the c7 fan. I am unsure if this will help things at all
 
Last edited:

Ca11idus

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
500
Intel's spec sheet for the 7700k lists it as 91W TDP, and the 7700 as 65W TDP. That's all the info I need.
Because one runs at higher stock clocks that the other. But it's your decision. You could easily get the k and set it to non k specs and have the same results while maintaining an item that will have higher resale value. Not only will you be able to fetch more $ for it but it will be easier to sell.
 

phoxx

n00b
Joined
Jun 6, 2016
Messages
36
My plan was to get the silverstone AR05 and either a NF-A9x14 or NF-F12 iPPC-2000 PWM. I was going to make some nice brackets to support it. Might have to make my own AM4 bracket as well since silverstone announced they wont be making kits for the AR05.

Oh well, the perks of having access to a full machine shop :)
 

dondan

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
1,751
But then I booted the pc, to a black screen (nobios) but all fans are spinning and the gaming lights on the motherboard were all on. I decided to pull out the powercord and let flow out all the current by holding the power button.

Then I tried it again. And it booted all the way to Windows! Then I shut it down and tried again. But no luck, the black screen returned. Now every time before turning on the pc I need to unplug the powercord to fix it.

I can also feel a low electric current flowing through the top-and-front metal plate but not in the side panels when I place my finger on it. Could that be a possible cause and do I need to ground the case in some way? I thought the case was already grounded?
I also hear a click-sound at the moment the lights on the motherboard and gpu turn off when I unplug the powercord and hold the power button.

Please test three things for me:

1.) Unplug the A4-SFX power cord and use a different power cord (maybe thatone that was included with your psu)

If that will work the included power cable is defective and you have to open a rma case on www.dan-cases.com

2.) Remove the Riser from the Motherboard. Boot the system while using the gpu that is inside your cpu (igpu).

If that will work the included riser cable is defective and you have to open a rma case on www.dan-cases.com

3.) Unplug the USB 20pin cable from the motherboard an boot the system.

If that will work the included usb cable is defective and you have to open a rma case on www.dan-cases.com
 

MrLahn

n00b
Joined
May 30, 2016
Messages
31
So the 14mm fan actually performed worse? Amazon RMA, here I come. Man this sucks, I don't know what to do. I can't live with the noise the c7 makes inside the A4, but solutions that can equal the C7 at an adequate price seem absent.
I know... I can't really return my XT140 just because it performs worse, I've already opened and used it. :p

I guess I'll have to take off my case side off for the time being, until a good cooling solution has been found, it sucks :(
 

dopa

n00b
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
26
There was some mention here and there of using the C7 heatsink with the Noctua L9i fan...does anyone know if this gets rid of the noise while giving the c7 superior cooling performance?

If anyone has done this, could you also let us know how you secured the noctua fan to the C7 heatsink?

I've got both the C7 and L9i and am thinking of cannibalising the fan from the noctua to use with the C7 if it improves temps/noise

Edit: i just compared the noctua to the c7 fan. Theres hardly any difference between them. 2-3mm at the most. I have my doubts whether this difference would be enough to solve the noise issue

Ok securing the noctua fan to the c7 heatsink is possible with cable ties. Using the noctua fan, you save a grand freaking total of 2mm compared to the c7 fan. I am unsure if this will help things at all

Check the "results" tab:
 

promaty

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
72
stop mislead people, and constantly write this nonsense

i7-7700k + nn-l9i Excellent cope even in difficult games

here's my temperature after an hour in the battlefield 1


That's what I said, you can use it for gaming, but not for overclock.

Regarding K vs non-K, there are some other games which are more CPU-intensive so you should be careful. Just look at the test by Meccabolix, you can reach 100 degrees with AR05 (should be similar for L9i). So be smart. If you want to run everything out-of-the-box without any tweaking, you should opt for a non-K in order to be 100% safe.

EDIT: 100°C was for overclock, 86°C for stock speeds, still not nice. I wouldn't be comfortable with that.

Just got My ar05, but first, these are the temps for the Cryorig C7:

Idle:
View attachment 17020

Stress test with Prime 95:
View attachment 17021

Not bad, but the noise obviously is annoying at full fan speed.



Now for the SilverStone AR05, here is a video:



Idle speed: 1124 RPM

Full speed: 2320 RPM

Very very quiet at full speed, which is great! But these are the temps with a 6700k @ 4.4Ghz:

Idle:
View attachment 17022

Stress test with Prime 95:
View attachment 17023

Ouch, within the first minute it hit 100°C, I wouldn't recommend the SilverStone AR05 cooler if you are planning to overclock, but if you aren't looking to overclock its very very quiet at 100% fan speed (86°C max @ stock speeds).

This weekend i will try the lp53 with the a9x14 and post a video and some temps, i'm also waiting on a nexus to come sometime soon, i will do the same for that if i can fit it in.
 
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promaty

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
72
Some more info regarding K vs non-K with L9i / AR05.

Here is a spec sheet from the Noctua site for L9i (should be similar for AR05). i7 K processors should be used with caution:

L9i.PNG
 

promaty

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
72
Also spec sheet for AR05, same thing. If you are lazy to tweak (like me), buy a 65W non-K and be happy forever :)

ar05.PNG
 

epitaphic

n00b
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
20
Higher voltage + higher frequency = too much heart for little coolers. You can scale back the K processor to behave like non-K. You're all saying the same thing. Let's stop going around in circles.

As for the PC not booting Wezelkrozum dondan mine wouldn't boot with my graphics card because the metal piece (that sticks out at the back of the case that holds the card) was too tall, preventing the riser PCI slot from making full contact with the card. I had to unscrew the riser at which point it all worked.

I highly recommend people build outside of the case first, so it's easier to debug.
 

dondan

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
1,751
I guess I'll have to take off my case side off for the time being, until a good cooling solution has been found, it sucks :(

The problem with a 140mm or 120mm on the c7 is, that the biggest part of the air went not through the heatsink, because air will use the easiest way.

Use the A9x14 fan with the included 12v to 9v adapter (low noise adapter).
 

M4vr1c1o

n00b
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
31
The problem with a 140mm or 120mm on the c7 is, that the biggest part of the air went not through the heatsink, because air will use the easiest way.

Use the A9x14 fan with the included 12v to 9v adapter (low noise adapter).

Dan as anyone posted the same problem as i did? About the side panel blocking ths C7 fan?
 

dopa

n00b
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
26
Can someone try to mount the fans on the side panel to see what it does to C7 noise and temp when there is no gap between the fan and side panel? Preferably both the C7 fan and the Noctua one.

@gna582 - You really managed "i5-7600K 4500 Mhz 1,12 V 67 °C 23 °C 1800 92 x 14 NF-A9x14 PWM Noctua NH-L9i" with no mods? no delid? no direct die mount? stock TIM?
 

Philfreeze

Weaksauce
Joined
Jan 19, 2016
Messages
101
Can someone try to mount the fans on the side panel to see what it does to C7 noise and temp when there is no gap between the fan and side panel? Preferably both the C7 fan and the Noctua one.

@gna582 - You really managed "i5-7600K 4500 Mhz 1,12 V 67 °C 23 °C 1800 92 x 14 NF-A9x14 PWM Noctua NH-L9i" with no mods? no delid? no direct die mount? stock TIM?
Asking people to post their OC/temp results online in a public spreadsheet is like asking people for their weight. Some make it look better than it actually is because of personal reasons and some just have bad scales which do not give you proper values.
it is the same here, some may use the most 'optimistic' numbers they saw and some might just not really know how they can properly monitor everything to insure the results are correct (not deactivating C states while testing thermals, not monitoring ambient the whole time, running it for a too small time etc.), measuring things is hard, there is a reason that it is a full scientific discipline (metrology).
 

Trudy

n00b
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
10
Did anyone have a go at the DeepCool HTPC200 CPU coolers? looks like it will fit right in, though might have the same issues as the C7 in terms of turbulens due to sitting to c lose to the sidepanel?

The heatsink looks a lot like the silverstone AR05
 

dopa

n00b
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
26
Edges like those are often added for strength purposes.
Yeah, I guessed it was for vertical stability. If it doesn't have any other purpose could it instead go down, along the side of the PSU?

Reason I'm asking is, I looked at the free space (at least 3cm since a SFX-L fits there) there is when using a SFX PSU and thought how to take advantage of that. One of the biggest drawbacks for this case is that there is no active exhaust which makes the case and components pretty hot - seen by the temp difference when not using the I/O panel.
I figured that there is enough room for a 92mm top fan if you lower the PSU with spacers/extending bracket, that attaches to the stock bracket, to make room for the powercable and airflow. It would also pull air from the GPU side. Below is a quick sketch of it:
DAN-A4-top-fan.png


Something for A4-SFX v2?

More great pictures by loafidelity.
 

pagold

n00b
Joined
Feb 16, 2017
Messages
10
Yeah when i put the side panel you can ear the fan hitting it and then it stops =s
Did you modify anything that adds height to the mobo or the heatsink? I have a C7 in my Dan A4 and have no trouble closing the sidepanel. Also a lot of guys on German forums installed C7s and I did not read of any problem..

There was some mention here and there of using the C7 heatsink with the Noctua L9i fan...does anyone know if this gets rid of the noise while giving the c7 superior cooling performance?

If anyone has done this, could you also let us know how you secured the noctua fan to the C7 heatsink?

I've got both the C7 and L9i and am thinking of cannibalising the fan from the noctua to use with the C7 if it improves temps/noise

Edit: i just compared the noctua to the c7 fan. Theres hardly any difference between them. 2-3mm at the most. I have my doubts whether this difference would be enough to solve the noise issue

Ok securing the noctua fan to the c7 heatsink is possible with cable ties. Using the noctua fan, you save a grand freaking total of 2mm compared to the c7 fan. I am unsure if this will help things at all

Just registered to leave my two cents regarding this..
I switched the C7 stock fan for the Noctua A9x14 fan yesterday. After booting the pc I detached the sidepanel again to see if the fan was even spinning because I did not hear it..
Running Prime tests I only noticed a silent whisper. Nothing I would consider bothering and nowhere annoying like C7 stock. Temperatures rose about 3° but I don't have any problem with that.
Having seen/heard this I immediately canceled my orders of the NH-L9i and SST-AR05 as I am happy with both temps and noise of C7 heatsink + A9x14 fan.
Added test results for my Xeon E3-1230 v3 to Shaav's google doc.

About mounting the fan to the heatsink I found some examples on German forums:
zip ties:
upload_2017-2-16_12-54-42.jpeg

wire:
upload_2017-2-16_12-54-50.jpeg

nails :eek::
upload_2017-2-16_12-54-30.jpeg

s-hooks + tension spring:
upload_2017-2-16_12-55-32.jpeg
 

Jspr

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 28, 2016
Messages
163
Did you modify anything that adds height to the mobo or the heatsink? I have a C7 in my Dan A4 and have no trouble closing the sidepanel. Also a lot of guys on German forums installed C7s and I did not read of any problem..



Just registered to leave my two cents regarding this..
I switched the C7 stock fan for the Noctua A9x14 fan yesterday. After booting the pc I detached the sidepanel again to see if the fan was even spinning because I did not hear it..
Running Prime tests I only noticed a silent whisper. Nothing I would consider bothering and nowhere annoying like C7 stock. Temperatures rose about 3° but I don't have any problem with that.
Having seen/heard this I immediately canceled my orders of the NH-L9i and SST-AR05 as I am happy with both temps and noise of C7 heatsink + A9x14 fan.
Added test results for my Xeon E3-1230 v3 to Shaav's google doc.

About mounting the fan to the heatsink I found some examples on German forums:
zip ties:
View attachment 17084
wire:
View attachment 17085
nails :eek::
View attachment 17083
s-hooks + tension spring:
View attachment 17086
THIS! makes me so happy :)
 

mirgus

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 11, 2016
Messages
240
What is this raised edge for?

Increasing the stability of the shroud

Asking people to post their OC/temp results online in a public spreadsheet is like asking people for their weight. Some make it look better than it actually is because of personal reasons and some just have bad scales which do not give you proper values.
it is the same here, some may use the most 'optimistic' numbers they saw and some might just not really know how they can properly monitor everything to insure the results are correct (not deactivating C states while testing thermals, not monitoring ambient the whole time, running it for a too small time etc.), measuring things is hard, there is a reason that it is a full scientific discipline (metrology).

Thats not even the problem. There are few problems:
  • CPU are different, doesnt matter if the run @ same vcore
  • I doubt that the people really know their ambient temperature
  • Everyone is using different thermalpaste
  • The test parameters are probably different and not documanted (sidepanel off, which RPM are the running at etc)
  • If someone only tested one cooler, then his temps are pretty useless since u cant vaildate the data

Thats the reason why i dont trusts most of the results, only those where i know that they make sure the have the same test parametes with their coolers.
 
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M4vr1c1o

n00b
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
31
Did you modify anything that adds height to the mobo or the heatsink? I have a C7 in my Dan A4 and have no trouble closing the sidepanel. Also a lot of guys on German forums installed C7s and I did not read of any problem..

I didn't modify anything about the cooler, i noticed that mine as a little elevation if i push the fan down i can see the black plastic beneath the fan moving down, don't know if it's normal or not.

Seems like i will buy an A9x14 fan and apply it on the C7 heatsink like you mention, thank you for your opinion :)
 

Blackreplica

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 9, 2016
Messages
205
Did you modify anything that adds height to the mobo or the heatsink? I have a C7 in my Dan A4 and have no trouble closing the sidepanel. Also a lot of guys on German forums installed C7s and I did not read of any problem..



Just registered to leave my two cents regarding this..
I switched the C7 stock fan for the Noctua A9x14 fan yesterday. After booting the pc I detached the sidepanel again to see if the fan was even spinning because I did not hear it..
Running Prime tests I only noticed a silent whisper. Nothing I would consider bothering and nowhere annoying like C7 stock. Temperatures rose about 3° but I don't have any problem with that.
Having seen/heard this I immediately canceled my orders of the NH-L9i and SST-AR05 as I am happy with both temps and noise of C7 heatsink + A9x14 fan.
Added test results for my Xeon E3-1230 v3 to Shaav's google doc.

About mounting the fan to the heatsink I found some examples on German forums:
zip ties:
View attachment 17084
wire:
View attachment 17085
nails :eek::
View attachment 17083
s-hooks + tension spring:
View attachment 17086

Thank you for the very informative post!

As I mentioned before, the difference in height between the C7 fan and the A9x14 is just 2mm, i just measured it just now. I am quite surprised that this 2mm can make such a big difference. I'm now wondering if it would be possible to just grind away 2-3mm from the fan of the C7 to make it work optimally in the Dan A4.
 

pagold

n00b
Joined
Feb 16, 2017
Messages
10
I think it is not only the 2mm difference in height but also the quality of the bearing and the whole fan itself.
My C7 stock fan was annoying even at low speed with no sidepanel at all and idling pc.
 

tviceman

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
398
So the c7+noctua fan works well enough, thanks for the information and tests.

Will the lp-53 + noctua fan perform better than the c7+noctua fan?
 

pagold

n00b
Joined
Feb 16, 2017
Messages
10
So the c7+noctua fan works well enough, thanks for the information and tests.

At least for my setup with a non OC CPU. Don't know if there are reserves for OC'ing big time.

Will the lp-53 + noctua fan perform better than the c7+noctua fan?

According to other tests probably not very noticeable and not worth to me comparing it as I'm happy now.

Only disadvantage: I can now hear coil whine under load as there is no fan going bonkers anymore :D
 

voodosheeb

n00b
Joined
Aug 30, 2016
Messages
43
just ordered a few more parts , I ordered the l9i , I already have the c7 so at the very least I can swap fans, hopefully you guys don't come up with something else and then I need to buy another cooler, and the next cooler I buy will be a dans if he decides to make one
 

Suneks

n00b
Joined
May 29, 2016
Messages
9
For people with a Asus motherboard. Try downloading the 'Asus Ai suite 3' and run the 'Fan Expert 2' program. In idle my C7 went from 29 Degrees (delid) and 1300 RPM to 30 degrees and 700 RPM. It's now quiet at idle and under load it's audible but not as before.
 

Trudy

n00b
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
10
For people with a Asus motherboard. Try downloading the 'Asus Ai suite 3' and run the 'Fan Expert 2' program. In idle my C7 went from 29 Degrees (delid) and 1300 RPM to 30 degrees and 700 RPM. It's now quiet at idle and under load it's audible but not as before.
I also did this and it changed the behaviour of the fan but its just as loud as it was before especially under load (Gaming). However, it doesn't skyrocket in the same way.
 
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