Windows 8: A Design Disaster

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
While I do agree with some of the points this guy makes, I don't know if I would go as far as calling Windows 8 a "design disaster."

I just can’t shake the feeling that Windows 8 would be better off as two separate operating systems. A ‘classic’ Windows 8 for regular desktop and notebook systems - which would feel more like a service pack for Windows 7 than a full release — and a separate ‘Metro’ version for touch-enabled hardware. Even at this late stage in the game, it still feels to me like Windows 8 is two operating systems unceremoniously bolted together.
 

mzs_biteme

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 7, 2001
Messages
1,595
I just can’t shake the feeling that Windows 8 would be better off as two separate operating systems. A ‘classic’ Windows 8 for regular desktop and notebook systems - which would feel more like a service pack for Windows 7 than a full release — and a separate ‘Metro’ version for touch-enabled hardware.

^This 100%....
I had the same exact feeling 5min after installing Win8 preview on my laptop..... :rolleyes:
 

NoxTek

The Geek Redneck
Joined
May 27, 2002
Messages
9,300
I would definitely go that far... in fact, to go farther and throw my personal opinion in, I think Windows 8 is the single most retarded piece of crap to come out of Redmond.

The developers of Windows 8's user interface either spent hours locked away looking at AOL's dialup interface from the early 1990's, or hours playing with legos... and not the cool legos either, the retarded huge-ass Duplos that those special kids had to play with.

I think Windows 8's saving grace will be the blossoming tablet computing market. That's about all it's good for...
 

SkribbelKat

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
5,330
I can see this thread going differently than the ton of other ones where people use the same arguments for 8+ pages of posts that change nobody's opinion.
 

wiseoracle

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 22, 2002
Messages
2,305
I think they should have both interfaces, and at first setup allow the customer to choose.

Or at least have it automatically detect if the system has a touch enabled panel, that enables it. Otherwise defaults to what we are all used to.
 

pelo

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 23, 2011
Messages
2,911
There’s a palpable fear that Windows 8 will stumble out of the door. I’m hearing this from people within Microsoft, from the OEMs and vendors, and from others in and around the industry. The OEMs and vendors feel especially vulnerable, and if Windows 8 does become ‘another Vista’ then there will be an industry-wide bloodbath. Analysts are already cutting price targets on Dell and HP, and Windows 8 is still a few months away.

Ouch. Throw in the price difference at $85+ for the Win8 RT version that lacks everything Android...

I hope MS has been working on Win9 these last couple of years :)
 

GotNoRice

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 11, 2001
Messages
11,252
I would agree. As bad as I think metro is, what makes it even worse is the complete lack of integration with the desktop. You can't even switch seamlessly between metro and non-metro apps. Going between the desktop and metro feels more like I'm switching between the desktop and a VM running a phone OS.
 

wfalcon

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 7, 2000
Messages
1,916
I would definitely go that far... in fact, to go farther and throw my personal opinion in, I think Windows 8 is the single most retarded piece of crap to come out of Redmond.

You must not have played with Windows ME. :D

But other than that, agree completely.
 

NoxTek

The Geek Redneck
Joined
May 27, 2002
Messages
9,300
I find it funny that they compare it to Vista.... A more accurate comparison would be to compare it to the abomination that was Windows ME, but I'd guess a lot of people now are too young to remember that. :p
 

Azhar

Fixing stupid since 1972
Joined
Jan 9, 2001
Messages
18,876
I like the Start Menu myself and Windows 8 as a whole. Like the guy says, it's fast, reliable and snappy and gets the job done and it's a refreshing change from what we've seen since 1995, but if there's one thing that needs work - somehow - it's the "All Apps" section.

I find myself trying to locate apps in the jumbled mess that hasn't been pinned to Start Menu for whatever reason - I don't use it often, not really pin-worthy (SQL Server Configuration Manager for example). What used to be a simple task of scrolling down All Programs alphabetically, I find my eyes wander all over the place in All Apps even though I know it's also alphabetical, taking several times longer to locate something. Perhaps all they need to do is bolden and change the color of each "app folder" fonts (Microsoft SQL Server 2008 R2 for example) and make the apps within have smaller fonts.

There's a couple other minor quirks for me, but can be major in other places like computers of people I support, and in the business world, such as not having native DVD support. I say minor for me because I'm also a Blu-ray user and I have to use TotalMedia Theater anyways. So I'll simply turn the DVD task to that instead. No big deal. I just hope OEM reintroduce software in every machines like they did in the past using WinDVD or (ugh) PowerDVD.
 

GotNoRice

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 11, 2001
Messages
11,252
You must not have played with Windows ME. :D

I find it funny that they compare it to Vista.... A more accurate comparison would be to compare it to the abomination that was Windows ME, but I'd guess a lot of people now are too young to remember that. :p

I never really understood the hate of ME. The entire 9x branch was what sucked. I don't feel like ME is any worse than 98se, especially once you disable the features like System Restore which were brand new at the time and tended to bog down systems. Maybe it's because enthusiasts were starting to transition to Windows 2000 at the time; of course any 9x OS is going to feel like crap compared to win2k which IMO was one of the best OS ever made.
 

Zarathustra[H]

Extremely [H]
Joined
Oct 29, 2000
Messages
35,035
As a result, rather than keeping your attention focused on a small part of the screen, you’ve now got to scan over the entire screen. The larger the screen, the more area you have to scan. It turns the process of finding the app you want to run into a game of “Where’s Waldo?” — and I detest playing that game or puzzle, or whatever it is.

The last thing I want is for my PC to force me into playing “hunt the app” every time I want to get something done.

This is kind of the same way I feel about the Ribbon interface in Office.

Before you could scroll down a list of menus and find something quickly. Now it's a matter of hunting a disorganized ribbon playing "where's waldo" (or where's "goal seek" in this case). that is not an improvement.

At first I thought it was just a matter of getting used to the ribbon, but even after using Office 2010 exclusively for about six months now, I still find the "where's waldo" effect slowing me down.

That's not to say I haven't become more comfortable with it over time (I have) but the truth is that lists of text in a straight line that your eyes can easily follow top to bottom are always going to be more efficient than a bunch of icons or text spread out over a bar.
 

DeathPrincess

Fully [H]
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
18,205
I can see this thread going differently than the ton of other ones where people use the same arguments for 8+ pages of posts that change nobody's opinion.

It's kind of difficult to use different arguments when the situation hasn't gone anywhere. Pretty much so far:

People: "this is fucking terrible, you are idiots for making it like this, can't we have the option of not having it like this. :mad:"
Microsoft: "we know better than you, fuck you peons! All of yous are wrong! You are all fucking idiots. p.s. Please buy it, please? :("

Until either side backs down or compromises the debate isn't going anywhere. It seems they are taking the bludgeon over bribe approach. :D
 

wonderfield

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
Messages
7,396
...it still feels to me like Windows 8 is two operating systems unceremoniously bolted together.
Windows 8 is perhaps not two operating systems bolted together, but it is certainly two UIs tied together with some string.
 

djsb

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 22, 2009
Messages
396
I'm not going to disagree with the gist of the article... but why do people still complain about having no vertical list of programs in the start menu? Who has fallen in love with Win7 as much as the author apparently has, but still insists on the Win95 model of visually searching for shortcuts in the start menu? Ever since I figured out that I could type to search in 2007, I haven't gone into the Programs flyout unless it was to drag in a new shortcut... so that I could search for it later on.
 

haste.

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 11, 2011
Messages
1,651
I find it funny that they compare it to Vista.... A more accurate comparison would be to compare it to the abomination that was Windows ME, but I'd guess a lot of people now are too young to remember that. :p

Vista is just not that bad. It's not like they removed the start button or something.
 

TwiceOver

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 14, 2003
Messages
2,412
I've played with it and all I can think is what a horrible day it will be when I have to roll this out to my corporate users.

From what I understand, last I checked, you cannot boot right into the "desktop" environment either. Ick.
 

Grebuloner

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
1,434
Forgot about little clippy...but at least if you turned off his speech and changed him to a more interesting character (I loved Power Pup the dog) it was a nice procrastinator helper...
 

pelo

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 23, 2011
Messages
2,911
I don't think it's just the visual method for searching for the apps but how disjointed the new menu is as a whole. It's intrusive in that it takes up the whole screen rather than just a small portion. That's unnecessary. What makes this worse is the "search" is supposed to come into play more so than in win7 but when you're searching for something you're usually looking at the name on the desktop. So now you've got to swing back and forth twice if it's longer because you're entire screen has been Metro-d. Ubuntu's HUD is awesome in this respect because it only takes up a small amount of space and much faster in both launching an application or getting to a setting. You've got your drop down list of options and your work space still there.

Win8 also works poorly in multi-display configurations. If you're doing work on two separate screens (or three) you've got to dedicate a single monitor to the interface launching.

Metro apps still work really poorly with mouse and keyboard so you've got to handle two separate sets of applications: one for Metro with touch and the traditional desktop applications that require M+KB.

I could care less about the "style" of the launch/start menu, but FFS why make it more difficult?
 

TechLarry

RIP [H] Brother - June 1, 2022
Joined
Aug 9, 2005
Messages
30,483
I agree with the author 100%. There will be those permanently attached to the Microsoft Tit who will stand up for their OS Overlord without question, and that's ok. Their numbers appear to be very limited on this one.

I'm sure at least one person liked the Yugo.
 

ballistic90

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
3,308
I dunno, I feel like this will end up being like Vista, where someone takes a complaint, blows it out of proportion and everyone falls into line with that, not wanting to look like a computer novice. Kindof a "Emperor's new clothes" kinda thing.

Vista did have problems... If you were using legacy hardware or if you leave UAC on. Any OS sucks if you can't get good drivers for your hardware.

Windows 8 looks like they're going out on a limb to make some fundamental changes, and they are adding in a lot of small features that are easy to overlook.
 
Joined
Oct 8, 2005
Messages
2,629
Zarathustra[H];1038846403 said:
This is kind of the same way I feel about the Ribbon interface in Office.

Before you could scroll down a list of menus and find something quickly. Now it's a matter of hunting a disorganized ribbon playing "where's waldo" (or where's "goal seek" in this case). that is not an improvement.

At first I thought it was just a matter of getting used to the ribbon, but even after using Office 2010 exclusively for about six months now, I still find the "where's waldo" effect slowing me down.

That's not to say I haven't become more comfortable with it over time (I have) but the truth is that lists of text in a straight line that your eyes can easily follow top to bottom are always going to be more efficient than a bunch of icons or text spread out over a bar.

The Ribbon is more efficient and more utilized than menus, 100% proven fact.
 

Domingo

Fully [H]
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
21,368
Agreed 100% on the comment of Win8 being better as two separate OS's. Luckily we have the desktop version already and it's Windows 7.
 
Joined
Oct 8, 2005
Messages
2,629
I don't think it's just the visual method for searching for the apps but how disjointed the new menu is as a whole. It's intrusive in that it takes up the whole screen rather than just a small portion. That's unnecessary. What makes this worse is the "search" is supposed to come into play more so than in win7 but when you're searching for something you're usually looking at the name on the desktop. So now you've got to swing back and forth twice if it's longer because you're entire screen has been Metro-d. Ubuntu's HUD is awesome in this respect because it only takes up a small amount of space and much faster in both launching an application or getting to a setting. You've got your drop down list of options and your work space still there.

Win8 also works poorly in multi-display configurations. If you're doing work on two separate screens (or three) you've got to dedicate a single monitor to the interface launching.

Metro apps still work really poorly with mouse and keyboard so you've got to handle two separate sets of applications: one for Metro with touch and the traditional desktop applications that require M+KB.

I could care less about the "style" of the launch/start menu, but FFS why make it more difficult?

Why are you forced to dedicate one monitor to interface launching? W8 has better multi-monitor support than W7.
 

pelo

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 23, 2011
Messages
2,911
Why are you forced to dedicate one monitor to interface launching? W8 has better multi-monitor support than W7.

I didn't buy multiple monitors for gaming but rather for work. I need two dedicated work spaces and value that more than somebody on a single display. Now if I want to launch something I've got to play Metro whack-a-mole.

Win8's multi-monitor support is slightly better -- can now have separate backgrounds! Woooo! Also you've got the option of having the task bar on each display -- but they also introduced other not-so-good things

There are too many hidden and invisible user interface elements in Windows 8. Take your mouse to the bottom-left of the screen and you get poor replacement to the Start Menu. Take the cursor to the top-left and you get tiles showing apps that are open. Take the cursor to the right of the screen and a charms Ribbon pops out. How is this any better or more intuitive than everything on a single taskbar?

It isn't. In fact that too is unnecessary. So if Metroing your workplace wasn't enough, they've also taken away your corners in multi-monitor configs for more sparkles that can and should be addressed via keyboard shortcuts.
 

SkribbelKat

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
5,330
It's kind of difficult to use different arguments when the situation hasn't gone anywhere.

Yup, nothing is changing on the design front so we're going to be comparing it to ME, Vista, or Bob (who I liked, by the way). Someone may as well copy and paste the last Win8 thread into this one so everyone is saved the effort of typing it all over again. :D
 

jojo69

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
11,107
ubuntu - unity

win8 - metro

its like the world is drowning in stupid
 

HAQattaq

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 25, 2005
Messages
282
I agree. Win8 will fail miserably for regular point/click desktop users.

baby steps are needed, not huge leaps
 

Koolthulu

Gawd
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
773
If I didn't already own an Android tablet and had so much money tied up in Android apps, I would actually seriously consider getting a Windows 8 tablet. But it just doesn't do anything for me on the desktop.

I know why MS did it, but I think it is a mistake that will come back to bite them. People are going to hate it on the desktop and that is going to discourage then from even trying it on a tablet where it can actually shine.
 

phred15

Limp Gawd
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
224
I have been using it for a couple of days now and still can't say I like it. I was totally overwhelmed when I first powered up. I tried to use it for half an hour and pulled the hard drive out and went back to 7. That is after holding the start button down until it shut off. It didn't last as long as Vista. The next day I put the drive back in and tried to learn about it. I believe Microsoft has to put out new software to make money. Who would go out and buy another operating system that looks like windows 7? After all it is not broken. Those of you who are going to have to support a business full of new systems with Win8 are going to have a tough time. My guess about this is that companies are not going to buy them. Just like they didn't buy Vista.
 

Azhar

Fixing stupid since 1972
Joined
Jan 9, 2001
Messages
18,876
I have been using it for a couple of days now and still can't say I like it. I was totally overwhelmed when I first powered up. I tried to use it for half an hour and pulled the hard drive out and went back to 7. That is after holding the start button down until it shut off. It didn't last as long as Vista. The next day I put the drive back in and tried to learn about it. I believe Microsoft has to put out new software to make money. Who would go out and buy another operating system that looks like windows 7? After all it is not broken. Those of you who are going to have to support a business full of new systems with Win8 are going to have a tough time. My guess about this is that companies are not going to buy them. Just like they didn't buy Vista.

Except nobody buys Windows operating systems. They use what comes with the machine they bought. But in a sense, you may be right. They might launch computers with Windows 7 Downgrade for the Windows 8 naysayers like they did with XP and Vista.

The only reason I can think of that Microsoft won't do that is because with Vista, not everything worked at first because driver support weren't all there, and because of the "ready for Vista" fiasco where hardware weren't powerful enough for it. This will not be the case for Windows 8.
 
Top